Engine assembly questions for noobies

Clay is an indicator that can help, I do it manually with a dial indicator,fairly simple . do #1 cylinder. Remove the springs on the valves of #1 of the heads, put weak springs on that you can easily push. I use the spring separators from 1969 rocker arm shafts. lol Temporarily install the head,doesn't need be torqued all the way, or use an old gasket, or none and add gasket thickness to clearance you found. The lifter plungers need to be at the top and not compressed,the light springs help. Turn motor by hand and when you start getting close to valve lift and piston near the top start pushing down the valve with a dial indicator on the top of valve. Do this every few degrees. You'll see this dimension decreasing, until you see it start to increase,this is valve clearance,do the other valve same way. Reapply the cam lube to the bottom of the lifter.A little time consuming but accurate,especially when you have minimums due to big overlap cams,minimum deck,and high lift. Also,don't assume since there are valve notches you're good, Ive seen them improperly placed or the valve touch the edge of the piston where the notch stopped. I'm sure JW has seen this too.
Also,don't take the shops word for giving you the clearances you ask for. I've been using the same shop for over 20 years, they are good and do all the strokers,but I still double check with mics. You never know when someone gets distracted or a mic is misread. For your application a plastic gauge will give you a go no go. 002" rods and mains are perfect.

 

I'd have to look at what I got last time if you want a brand name.....but any good lint free towel should work. It should be soft and when you shake it not see a blizzard of dust. They shouldn't shred apart on the edges of a block when drying or wiping a gasket surface.

Sometimes even though they ar course paper towel like bounty of cleaner and more lint free than the average box of blue shop rags.

I've heard of ppl even coffee filters

 

I got a bunch of microfiber towels that I bought for cleaning the car I'll use one of those. Also is it safe to use brake clean on the bearing surface and journals to remove the plastigauge or is it too harsh?

 

Thank you for the awesome tips Gary much appreciated! I will see if my buddy has mics and a bore gauge so I can actually check each bore/journal.

 

Every time I've used that stuff I find i can't get it off the bearing......then you tend rub harder ir scratch at it.......

Brake clean isn't too harsh.....just make sure its all dry b4 finial lube assembly. I've never tried mineral sports or paint thinner........I got pissed at plastigauge years ago and bought a mic set. Wasn't high dollar stuff.....but when I gave checked it within a few tenthousands....close enough for most things.......not much honest difference between .0023 and .0025. Closer than I could ever tell with the check with plastigauge

 

Mineral spirits works well for cleanup.
Spray on brake clean is fine if you have very low humidity, but if high humidity, it will precipitate water, and you don't want that.

I use isoprpyl 91% on back of bearings and cam bearing bores, as well as main and rod saddles so all are "dry" installs.

I did my cam degree, piston/valve clearances and push rod length check (to order) with no head gasket and finger tight bolts, and added .038 for the gasket (factoring in crush). I used play-doh.

I also used a pressure washer on the block after all machine work and oil mods, used pipe cleaners, and bore snakes, and rods and patches (like cleaning a gun) then soaked it in WD-40 (on the stand) rotating and then pressurized air and heat gun. Then I wiped all machined surfaces with ATF and no issue with flash rusting.
You would be surprised at how much "gritty paste" was in the crank journal oil passages.
Even hot tanked blocks and cranks have stuff settle and stick. You want to get it all out.

3/8" rubber hose cut an inch or so to cover the rod studs when stuffing them.

I used a ring squaring tool to set rings in bores for gap work, and make a numbered layout sheet to keep rings in order, then assemble. use a fine stone to dress the cut/ground ends/edges after gaping the rings.

Permatex "Right Stuff" for the china walls and toss the rubber seals.

I do not believe you can overclean, and I rather spend time cleaning a clean thing than earning money to repair a good thing gone bad.

Maybe overkill for some folks, but I gotta do me.

 

I'm actually looking on line right now at buying a mic and bore gauge .

 

TrunkMonkey I actually followed pretty much your exact procedure when cleaning the block and crank, twice. I will also use your other methods mentioned also for rings and rods. Yep rubber intake seals are already out of the picture got the right stuff on the shelf ready to go.

 

Engine oil !

 

If your just doing your engine, and not going to build any others that you know of in the future, then what you doing with a quick check with plastigauge is just fine. Plastigauge, even if left in the bearing will not hurt anything.

Like Gary said, this is a go, no go situation.. so you buy the mics and bore gauge, and you read that your number 4 main clearance is actually .0018.. you really going to go back and bitch? I don't think so. You would only be uncovering your ignorance to do that, since .0002 won't make a bit of difference.

When dealing with folks that know a lot more on a topic that I do, I have always stuck with the advice below.. I think it was Mark Twain who first said it:

"Better to let them think you a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"...

When I started in this business, and was building my first engines, I did a lot of listening, not a lot of talking, and the last thing I wanted to be was a "know it all". Even if I was fairly knowledgeable.. it's best not to act like it, a "know it all" turns machinists (and most professionals for that matter) off faster than anything, and many of them will dismiss you on the spot.

So don't worry about the mics and bore gauges for one engine..

But yes, you should check everything, I have always worked with talented machinists, but have found several errors over the years. It's uncommon, but we are all human..

I had to chuckle at those who assemble the whole shortblock, and then degree the cam.. that's way too much work, and it's really hard to stop a complete assembly at exactly .050 on the indicator. So you make yourself do a lot more work to be accurate.

Do it once with just number on piston, and you won't do it any other way, There is no advantage to having the whole thing together. This is really true when your using an 18" degree wheel and turning it over by hand.

If you want to check cam timing on other cylinders, then just install that piston before checking that set of lobes.

On piston clearance, you can check that if you wish, I use both the clay and the dial indicator method. The dial indicator to get an reasonably accurate idea of clearance, and with the clay type material to check notch locations. Make sure you use a solid lifter for the clay check.

It's good practice, but your combo will clear easily. All my pistons have a .300 deep relief in them, they clear just about anything.

Here is a list of the lube we use here in the shop, and where.

CMD-3
Heavy viscosity, dark greenish/brown in color - 7 oz tube

Best torque lube there is for bolts.. Critical housings (mains and rods) must use the same torque and lube that the machinist used.. CMD-3 is used during the machining of all Molnar rods, and we use it in the line hone/bore process on the blocks. This lube is used for all bolt threads, is superior to any other for consistent torquing, although it's more slippery than other lubes, so we usually decrease the torque value by about 10%. You get a nice consistent pull on that last step on your heads, instead of the notchy, crappy feeling you get with oil or ARP..

Clevite Bearing Guard
Heavy viscosity- red in color- 4 oz bottle or gallon 4 oz bottle enough for one engine.

This is a superior heavy bodied lube that is used on all journals and bearing surfaces. Stays put thru the assembly process, and adds extra protection for that first 30 seconds of run time. Use on main, rod and cam bearings. Also smear this on the contact area of the rear Main seal. Apply to the Piston pins and pin bores on a full float pin engine.

Gibbs BR-30 oil (or equivalent)

Used as both the break in oil, and for general lubrication.. timing chain and gears, and just a smear on the piston sides. On stock rocker assemblies, lube the rocker/shaft interface liberally, on roller rockers, turn the rocker upside down, and shoot oil in the pushrod cup hole.. do this for used rockers, new ones are prelubed, just put them on, over lubed valve tips and pushrod ends.

Lucas assembly lube
Medium viscosity, light blue in color

Excellent lube for the valvetrain.. use on valve stems, rocker arms, pushrods. You never put anything together dry on an engine.. NEVER...

Gibbs engine assembly lube, or similar moly paste

Very heavy viscosity.. actually a paste.. dark brown in color typically--use with brush for application (acid brushes work well) or you can just squeeze it out of the 4 oz tube.

Critical lube for the cam distributor gear and distributor gear, as well as cam lobes, lifter bottoms and fuel pump arms/lobes.

Marvel Mystery oil
Light viscosity machinist oil, red in color

This is used to lube cylinder walls, and ring packs after they are installed on the piston. Use generously..

The number one mistake of the amateur engine builder is over lubrication of the piston rings and cylinder walls. I made that mistake when I was starting out, most folks do. The cylinder walls and rings need friction to seat the rings, too much lube and you risk glazing the rings/walls, if that happens, the engine will never perform properly.

White Lithium Grease

Medium viscosity, white in color

Use this on valve stems and guides, as well as to lube spring Cups/Locators/shims and retainers and valve springs.

Good luck

JW

 

That ^^^ is exactly the list of products and steps I was looking for, thanks Jim! I was hoping to obtain it in pieces from knowledgeable members here but to get it in full in one shot is awesome, I love this site. I definitely don't know half let alone all of it so I'd never portray I do, that's why I'm asking everything I can to avoid costly mistakes. And you're right Jim I wouldn't bitch at my machinist over .0002 but if the tolerances were .003-4 and he said they were all .002 now that's a different story, he'd be getting an earful. As for the cam degreeing, I'm sticking with #1 piston installed only method as I want this to be as easy and smooth as possible because I'm already intimidated by this part, I've read that thread a dozen times and I'm still a bit stressed . Once I do it I'll be good, I'm a hands on learner. I encourage others to keep adding to this thread because there's lots of us noobies out there trying to do this on our own and all this info surely helps!

 

Yup, that is exactly why I recommend you just use the plastigauge.. it won't tell you ten-thousandths, but will indicate if it's thousandths off.. That's all your looking for here.

if it helps, once you understand cam degreeing it's a snap. I can degree one, start to finish, in about 15 minutes, including setup.. But the first one probably took me 4 hours... an a lot of head scratching, so don't worry, all that is normal.

JW

 

Thanks Jim! I bought a degreeing kit and I bought a second dial indicator with an adjustable arm magnetic base and an indicator extension kit to reach the lifter. I read how you do it and it looks way easier having dual guages to work with rather than have keep moving one and resetting it back up everytime. This is my first engine build but won't be my last .

 

Just to touch base on the stuff Jim mentioned above here's what I have so far. I bought all this stuff months back (I think JW gave me this list in our phone conversation when we were discussing my build and pistons at new years lol??) when I dropped the block off at the machine shop. I also have the container of paste that came with my cam from TA. I have to use ARP lube for the rod bolts and main studs as that's what the machine shop used. I think all I'm missing is the break in oil?

 

Dont be stressed, take your time and have fun learning this stuff
I do the one piston installed thing too, MUCH easier rotating the engine, UNLESS your doing a cam swap, then yah dont have much choice.
I remember when I decided to degree a cam, I wanted to see what all this stuff was about, instead of installing "dot to dot"
I went to Summit Racing and bought a Comp Cams degree wheel set, I read the directions, set it up, went thru the process, read the directions again, and again, and again Little by little I was grasping the technique, and when I was able to get a few repeatable numbers, and it made sense, I knew I was good!
After I learned how to degree a cam ( TA 310, TA 413 in my 350) I always wondered why 350 guys said the 310 and 413 kills torque in a 350, I believe it was because they installed "dot to dot" and DID NOT degree the cam.
Take your time and have fun!

 

Thanks Mark for your vote of confidence and kind words! I'm going to have my phone on my lap and follow the steps in JW'S thread (multiple times if necessary) until I get it right.

 

Your welcome!
If it takes yah 10 tries, its ok, it took me quite a few times, its actually interesting

 

Well I got it all set up and zeroed in ready to degree but decided to stop since it was 2am and I wanted to go at it with a fresh mind. Hopefully later today I get to degreeing this sucker.

 

The devil is certainly in the details

 

It sure is Ben