Whatever. You said a lot without saying much, and contradicted yourself doing it. Who cares about their "marketing ploy" as you call it all companies do it one way or another, what I see when I read that is that the 4032 pistons are held to the same machining standards as the 2618 piston line.(so what? I think that is good to know, an yes I know all about the inserts because I use to program a CNC lathes.) Like you said the TRW material is similar to the 4032 alloy but not as good of quality as the 4032, not to long ago the TRW pistons were the ONLY choice to build a high performance BBB. Now a better alloy piston with a better all around design for strength and durability while being much lighter is available and all of a sudden its not good enough, unbelievable. That inferior off the shelf TRW piston was used in BBB boosted and high compression nitrous engines and now a better piston is available and its not good enough. WOW!ou: And we're not talking saving just a couple "$100's", we would be talking about several "$100's" as much as $800 + compared to a 2618 custom that AutoTec piston basically is for an off the shelf price that should be considered for all N/A non-girdled 455 builds, even an high compression build because those pistons are available as a flat top as well. What were they thinking offering a flat top 4032 piston for a BBB because everyone knows they are junk that can't handle anything more than 5:1 compression! (sarcasm to let people know that don't get sarcasm) What kind of HP did the designers of the flat top BBB 455 4032 pistons think they would make with a small chamber headed big block?!?!uzzled: A lot of intelligent people here in this Buick community, sometimes to the point of WAY over thinking intelligent.:eek2: Case in point, how many of those high HP "inferior" TRW piston builds that are 650 + HP are still out there tearing up the streets? Nuff said, point set match. GL Derek
OK, allow me to shed the "boilerplate" 'Ol TRW's were all we had to work with, we made them work. They weren't that great, but we made them work. With a more forgiving material, would you recommend 4032 to someone who might F-up a tune, run it out of oil, and get all his buddies to show up at your house with torches and pitchforks, because after all... YOU selected the piston? Now he's out 15k because you cheaped him out on $200-500. Yesterday's 500hp is today's 700hp. Not refuting history here. Remember, were talking about pushing limits. Now you have a better choice. If someone's spending extra on your reputation, you err to safety rather than save them a few hundred $$. I think I've stated clearly that 4032 or VMS-75 CAN work. The material was meant to be a HD factory replacement that might be subject to 100k miles. What was in most of mine? 4032/VMS-75. We are also making more power than yester-year as a society average. The forgings are only a few bucks a pc. in large quantities. The cycle time is the same for the most part. The price doesn't always reflect supply and demand. Sometimes you have to pay for quality= marketing hype. The material is chosen for the anticipated use. They are priced to meet an anticipated cost from a demographic group. I thought I was apologizing in advance for using info from Derek's post by stating that "I'm not singleing anyone out..." I didn't mean to strike a nerve.:beer I agree with 90% of your post, Derek, sorry I may have rubbed you the wrong way. How bout them ported cylinder heads?
Maybe not derailed, side tracked yeah.:grin: 650 might of been slightly high as an av. yes, but a whole lot of those crap piston engines are still propelling many, many Buicks and the older girdled ones are in the higher HP range with them built before the good pistons were available. You're forgetting that these pistons can have the compression distance changed at no additional cost. So if someone were to use 7.100" or even longer BBC rods, the piston would weigh a whole lot less. With the flat tops and milled heads can get up to 13.5:1 compression. The lightweight version of the long BBC rod with an under 1.500" compression distance piston and the less drag thinner ring pack that can be got with the AutoTecs would go further to the 750 goal than using a short rod heavy off the shelf piston even with a dome to get the 1 point of compression. The weight savings will trump the extra up to a point of compression. The point I'm trying to get at is the only "off the shelf piston" that has a shot to reach the 750 N/A goal would be the AutoTec flat top 4032 forged pistons. Because THE COMPRESSION DISTANCE CAN BE CHANGED AT NO ADDITIONAL COST, THE COMPRESSION DISTANCE CAN BE CHANGED AT NO ADDITIONAL COST!:Brow: So that weight you posted is for the taller spec'ed out pistons are not necessarily the weight that they will end up being with a shorter C/D. :TU: If Gary can get the heads he ends up using to flow as good as Gessler's best iron ported 400/430/455 heads he would still probably fall short of his goal without doing everything else to an engine to free up as much HP as he possibly can by reducing friction, controlling oil windage, lighten the rotating assembly as much as possible, reducing ring drag by using the thinnest low tension rings available ran with a vacuum pump so they will seal, like you said a big custom roller cam, roller rockers, small diameter stem titanium valves would help, beehive springs, titanium locks and retainers would help, the lighter valve train parts would help reduce the spring pressure needed to control the valves and reduce the effort the crank has spinning the cam, 5/16 pushrods would be less weight than 3/8, lightweight lifters would help, an external oil pick up with a 3/4" or larger supply line would reduce the effort to draw oil to pump would help, grind all the casting flash off of crank and polish as smooth as possible possibly sending it out to have it coated with a oil shedding coating of some sort(like the Eagle Armor crank coating that Eagle crank offers for their cranks, with all things equal Eagle did a back to back dyno test with the same crank uncoated and then coated it and re-dynoed with the only change was the coating on the crank and they claimed a 40 HP gain. So that gain isn't really "added" power as much as it is "freed up" power), maybe the same coating on the rods, anti-friction coating added to piston skirts, thermal coating on top of piston, thermal coating in combustion chambers, a belt drive timing set would help, electric water pump would help, tuned headers would help, and as many other "power freeing" tricks that can be thought of would help to achieve the iron headed no girdle build. Ported heads are only a fraction of what would be needed to achieve the 750 HP goal. The torque will be easier to come by on this build because RPM will be limited to 6,000 without a girdle, maybe up to 6,500 RPM IF the weight of the rotating assembly can be reduced enough to not break the block at that speed? This will have be a no holds barred build and be interesting to say the least to see if it can happen.(especially by trying to use donated and used parts) You have your work cut out for you Gary with that lofty goal, I would suggest using a girdle so you can spin it faster so maybe you can reach your mark a bit easier without the block failing? Getting 750 HP out of 600 HP is going to be challenging to "free up" 150 HP. The higher 13.5:1 compression = say 15 HP? Crank coating 10 - 40 HP = say + 25 HP? low tension thin ring pack with vacuum pump = say + 10 HP? Less friction roller cam = say + 10 HP? Belt drive timing set = say + 5 HP? Lighter valve train so you can run less spring pressure will let you rev faster easier = say + 10 HP? Roller rockers = say + 15 HP? (this one doesn't count because most 600 HP BBB engines run these) Thermal coatings = say + 5 HP? Friction coated piston skirts = say + 2 HP? External oil pick up and 3/4" line = say + 3 HP? Electric water pump = say +5 HP? I was guestimating the HP numbers so could be more or probably less but still this only adds up to 95 HP more raising the total to 695 HP from "freeing up" more HP and 55 HP less than the 750 goal. Of coarse this is assuming 600 HP can be made with ported iron heads at a lower compression ratio.o No: I don't even think custom dome 2618 lightweight pistons that are 16:1 will help unless he uses over 7" aluminum rods to get the piston weight down. 7.600" titanium rods with a 1.00" C/D pistons should do the trick!:eek2: Here is a set of rods that can be used with the AutoTec pistons that are on sale right now; http://www.ebay.com/itm/181581856081?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT FREE SHIPPING ON ORDERS OVER $75 See all eligible items <!-- Placement 100011 && 100012 --> [h=3]Picture Information[/h][TABLE="class: img img400"] <tbody>[TR] [TD]<!-- test --> <!-- --> <!-- --> [TABLE] <tbody>[TR] [TD]Mouse over to Zoom - Click to enlarge[/TD] [/TR] </tbody>[/TABLE] Image not available Photos not available for this variation <noscript><style type="text/css">.vi-hide-mImgThr {display: none;}</style><img id="icImg" class="img img400" itemprop="image" src="http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/kQ0AAOSwr81UPbnB/$_1.JPG" style="" clk="" alt="H-Beam-7-100-2-200-990-Bronze-Bush-4340-Connecting-Rods-Suits-Chevy-BBC-454" /></noscript> [/TD] [/TR] </tbody>[/TABLE] Mouse over image to zoom <button class="vi_pl_cls_btn">X</button> [TABLE="class: vi_img_crsl_tbl"] <tbody>[TR] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] </tbody>[/TABLE] [TABLE="class: img"] <tbody>[TR] [TD="class: tdThumb"] [/TD] [/TR] </tbody>[/TABLE] [TABLE="class: img"] <tbody>[TR] [TD="class: tdThumb"] [/TD] [/TR] </tbody>[/TABLE] [TABLE="class: img"] <tbody>[TR] [TD="class: tdThumb"] [/TD] [/TR] </tbody>[/TABLE] [TABLE="class: img"] <tbody>[TR] [TD="class: tdThumb"] [/TD] [/TR] </tbody>[/TABLE] <center>[TABLE] <tbody>[TR] [TD]Have one to sell? Sell now [/TD] [/TR] </tbody>[/TABLE] </center> [h=1]Details about H Beam 7.100" 2.200" .990" Bronze Bush 4340 Connecting Rods Suits: Chevy BBC 454[/h] <!--[if IE 7]> <![endif]--> <!-- DO NOT change linkToTagId="rwid" as the catalog response has this ID set --> <!--[if lt IE 8]> <style> .vi-VR-share-algn{ position:relative; top:-12px; } body #Body table.vi-VR-marTop5 { margin-top:2px; } </style> <![endif]--> [TABLE="class: vi-VR-marTop5, align: right"] <tbody>[TR] [TD]<a title="Email to friends" class="scIcon sw_email" id="sc_email" aria-label="Email to friends" href="javascript:;" rel="nofollow" 2.200"="" .990"="" bronze="" bush="" 4340="" connecting="" rods="" chevy="" bbc="" 454"="" data-destination="email" data-itemid="181581856081" data-spid="2047675" data-language="en_US" etafsharetitle="H Beam 7.100" etafshareurl="http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/181581856081"> <a title="Share on Facebook - opens in a new window or tab" class="scIcon sw_facebook" aria-label="Share on Facebook - opens in a new window or tab" href="http://www.ebay.com/soc/share?du=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F-%2F181581856081&rt=nc&t=H+Beam+7.100%22+2.200%22+.990%22+Bronze+Bush+4340+Connecting+Rods+Suits%3A+Chevy+BBC+454&spid=2047675&itm=181581856081&media=http%3A%2F%2Fgalleryplus.ebayimg.com%2Fws%2Fweb%2F181581856081_1_0_1%2F1000x1000.jpg&swd=2&shorten=0" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-destination="facebook" data-tracking=""> <a title="Share on Twitter - opens in a new window or tab" class="scIcon sw_twitter" aria-label="Share on Twitter - opens in a new window or tab" href="http://www.ebay.com/soc/share?du=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F-%2F181581856081&rt=nc&spid=2047675&itm=181581856081&media=http%3A%2F%2Fgalleryplus.ebayimg.com%2Fws%2Fweb%2F181581856081_1_0_1%2F1000x1000.jpg&swd=3&lang=en&t=Check+out+H+Beam+7.100%22+2.200%22+.990%22+Bronze+Bush+4340+Connecting+Rods+Suits%3A+Chevy+BBC+454" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-destination="twitter" data-tracking=""> <a title="Share on Pinterest - opens in a new window or tab" class="scIcon sw_pinterest" aria-label="Share on Pinterest - opens in a new window or tab" href="http://www.ebay.com/soc/share?du=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F-%2F181581856081&rt=nc&spid=2047675&itm=181581856081&media=http%3A%2F%2Fgalleryplus.ebayimg.com%2Fws%2Fweb%2F181581856081_1_0_1%2F1000x1000.jpg&swd=11&t=H+Beam+7.100%22+2.200%22+.990%22+Bronze+Bush+4340+Connecting+Rods+Suits%3A+Chevy+BBC+454" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-destination="pinterest" data-tracking=""> [/TD] [TD]| <a title="" class=" " id="watchLink" href="http://www.ebay.com/myb/WatchListAdd?_trksid=p2047675.l1359&SubmitAction.AddToListVI=x&item=181581856081&rt=nc&srt=010001000000505174db591458bd785f4338fc8aa2cbe0444dc56f66f505ba80452f8ba01fd8656c73c3bddb82e36e8ecd01dc02d1d90afd52b88280c7ba830c625f8ae6df6704d8ad9092df9f3248a58ac675f6d6f764&etn=Watch list&tagId=-99&wt=501590f8186c966f70a47dc32d222782&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en&sourcePage=4340" rel="nofollow">Add to watch list [/TD] [/TR] </tbody>[/TABLE] 2 watched in last 24 hours H Beam 7.100" 2.200" .990" Bronze Bush 4340 Connecting Rods Suits: Chevy BBC 454 Seller : speedmasterusadc (28330 ) 99.6% Positive feedback Follow this seller | See other items | Visit store: Speedmaster USA <form name="viactiondetails" action="" method="post" lpcachedvisval="1" lpcachedvistime="1417339147" lpsubdone="1">[h=2]Item Information[/h] Item condition: New <!-- volume pricing --> <!-- volume pricing ends --> Sale ends in: 01d 22h 42m <label for="qtyTextBox">Quantity:</label> <!-- err_qty_icon --> <input name="quantity" class="qtyInput" id="qtyTextBox" type="text" size="4" value="1" lpcachedvisval="1" lpcachedvistime="1417339147" autocomplete="off" isvalid="true"> 6 available <!-- generating Id's array --> Please enter a quantity of $qty_dummy$ or less Please enter a quantity of 1 Purchases are limited to $qty_dummy$ per buyer Please enter quantity of 1 or more Please enter a lower number Choose quantity that is less than $qty_dummy1$ or equal to $qty_dummy$ You can only choose quantity that is equal to $qty_dummy$ <!-- //TODO : remove hardcoded ID for Shipping cost --> Was: Original priceUS $249.00 What does this price mean? This is the price (excluding shipping and handling fees) this seller has provided at which the seller has sold the same item, or one that is virtually identical to it, in the recent past. The "off" amount and percentage simply signifies the calculated difference between the seller-provided original price for the item and the seller's current discounted price. If you have any questions related to the pricing and/or discount offered in a particular listing, please contact the seller for that listing. You save: $24.90 (10% off) Price: Discounted price US $224.10 Free shipping <!--Added for VAT message - DE site. Show VAT included msg just below the price. Converted price message should come after this message.--> <!-- Vat Excluded message --> <!-- inserting code for another button --> <!-- code ends --> Buy It Now Add to cart 8 watching Watching Remove from watch list Watch list is full Add to collection Free shipping </form> Derek
Here's the deal Tony, the 4032 is not only better than the VMS-75 alloy, the overall design of the piston is better as well that makes it stronger than the antique design of the TRWs. And I am NOT recommending using these in a "15k" race engine. LOL!!! A N/A street strip build these would be a great alternative to using the TRW forged or the crappy cast or hyper pistons. I probably would NEVER use the flat tops, but would have no problem selling a 10.5:1 al. head build or a 9.8:1 iron head build that was for the street/strip with them, even a girdled 650 up to 800 HP N/A build would be a good piston to use with a set of 7" plus long BBC rods. To get the HP numbers I would keep the compression under 11:1 and use the available aluminum heads to make that power(maybe ported by Chris?). May not get to the 800 number, but with the right heads and cam might get close with that compression. You keep the compression in the pump gas range and these are a great piston choice and with the TA head choices out there making pump gas power is getting easier and easier. The thing I like about the 4032 alloy like you pointed out about the VMS-75 material is that they both can go 100,000 miles in an non O/D car whereas the 2618 performance alloy isn't rated for as near as long of a service life as the 4032 alloy is.(so now which alloy is better? the soft squishy forgiving ones that wear out faster, or the harder less expanding little less forgiving ones that last MUCH longer? on another note, the 4032s are WAY more forgiving than the 2618 material for cold revving and WAY less piston slap before up to operating temp that the guy that would "get his buddies with torches and pitch forks showing up....." could hurt the engine that way as well so watch out for that guy too) I like the 2618 alloy for a higher compression nitrous or a lower compression boost engines, anything in between the 4032 is best suited because of it potential for more longevity. Just because a piston costs more doesn't necessarily make it the better choice of piston to use. And yes, you need to "know" your customer that you're selling an engine build to and kind of gage what their tuning abilities are and sell the less experienced guy the "safety margin" pistons or lower their squeeze to a safer range for their abilities. The pistons that are at least $500(a $500 savings is enough $$ to buy a girdle) less and customizable to do less machining to save even more $$$ would go a long way to getting a guy to keep their Buick, Buick and not stuff a junkyard LS in it also. I'm not talking about building high end purpose built race engines with these pistons, I have been saying all along, "N/A street/strip build" and for Gary to save a couple of $$ for his impossible task. You really didn't "strike a nerve" I'm thick skinned when it comes to the internet, I think you were just over thinking it now that 2618 pistons are available for a BBB.(read above comparison of 2618 vs. 4032) You were thinking high end dream engine building and not necessarily what the Buick guys want to pay for an engine, or should I say the guy that got a "deal" on an old Buick wants to pay.ou: A lot of guys that buy an old Buick car is because they cost less than the chebby sister car and then they can't figure out why everything to fix them costs twice as much as a chebby to restore them. Guys like that and the guys that only buy a Buick car to part it out are irksome to say the least. Would I like to do just 15k builds, hell yeah I would love it but we all can't be Jim Weises' or Chris Skalings' someone has to build these things for the "budget" guys too.:laugh::TU: :beer Derek
Actually, I'm attempting to make no inference to superiority, but rather appropriateness of application. Then the real world steps in with things like budget...long wait times, etc. My point of using gross exaggerations was to illustrate perspective. The answer might depend on who you ask and what their priorities are. It would be nice if every engine I worked with were 15k + :grin: Some months steak is better than ramen noodles. I suppose tone of voice might add the right color to some of these postings? Sometimes a less than optimal selection is used for practical reasons, like...( it's your only choice?) How about, I know I can get away with it and am willing to risk it because the rest of my parts fell into my lap? Nothing to lose. A good machining example is when doing ID work on a lathe. One might remove a better suited insert for most aspects of that job and use a lesser one only for the chipbreaker shape, because of the way the material chips away (or not). Is it better to have optimal tool life when you might pile up a boring bar? More sarcasm... I wonder which industrial diesel applications use 2618? No-one would argue that over the road trucks go a million miles. A huge quantity of diesel apps are stationary engines that may not have human supervision. As much as we think we know things, we don't. Now that this is a thread about 2618 vs. 4032....just kidding. I was curious when this might get to the short block, hence the numerous "hints" to start a new thread... A lot of ingenuity to be utilized. How would a titanium rod do in a non-computer enviro? With a minor flaw, titanium fatigues quickly...would a brief bout with detonation make quick work of it? Anyways, lots of good information sharing here...beats talk of NOS trim pieces, obsolete hubcaps and the like.
Your right Tony, its been a better thread the last 4 or 5 pages. Even though i dont have plans of doing a 455 any time soon but still like reading this kinda stuff. Hell i am still a nailhead apprintice.:laugh:.
Yes Indeed. In order to get the piston CD short enough for a very light piston the rod will need to be very long. A long rod increases piston dwell time and decreases "G" forces at TDC which is good for rod longevity but the "G" forces at BDC increases which is bad for the block. The aluminum rod will offer cushioning to help from cracking the main webs. A custom aluminum rod is a little cheaper than a custom steel rod. The decision might be to go to a billet piston with a box and strut design to minimize piston weight so now we are back to a 2618 alloy because of the machining process.
I agree with Chris, only an alum rod makes sense with this type of really challenging HP goal.... Even the original poster never said he expected the engine to live long, he just wants to hit 750 HP with iron heads and no girdle. Just to add to the piston discussion.... I am going to order some pistons soon for a heavily boosted 350 and my quote from Venolia was $1200 for fully custom pistons, rings and wristpins.... My quote from Scott Brown (auto tech) was $719.
I was hoping to see more input from machinists and engineers. Or ported head pics...There's facets to this subject the general consumer would never consider. Not too many manufacturers are going to spill their secrets. Most materials, even steels are selected for production ease. Heat treat process and warpage issues can be a big cost factor. Not much price difference between commonly used steels in raw form, until you start adding pennies from millions. Economies of mass change everything. Anyone think that OEM's went to PM rods because the old ones weren't up to the task? If all rods were made from 300m, we would have strong, relatively light rods...cheaper. What does a wheel lug stud or control arm bolt cost? Those are relatively inexpensive. I recall an old Cadillac factory manual listing material types of fasteners used. The focus of this beyond-orbit-tangent is for the realization of the fact that we can only work with what's available....and hopefully entertainment value. The subject of titanium rods really is thought provoking. Alum's have been claimed to go 200k+ miles if you don't beat on them cold...so, marketing reasons? Is the new Corvette owner "displaying" titanium rods like a fat bling-chain to match the pinky-ring, ornate sunglasses, fake tan and fresh mop from "The Hair Club For Men" demographic image? Is this all about that "Moment of Shining Glory" when someone asks the Vette owner, "Hey, is this one of those new one's with the titanium rods?" wait for it......(Beaming smile) "Why yes son, it is!" Wooow! Yep, "diamond turned finish". This entire subject is filled with contradiction. Just a thought. Probably overthinking things.:rant: Question on the comment of using 2618 in a billet piston for manufacturing reasons, is that because the Co. might not keep a bar of 4032 around for the purpose of making a short run?
Yes, no one is asking for billet 4032 alloy pistons so they aren't carrying any stock. However I will be at the PRI convention this December and can inquire about the possibility. All piston manufactures will be there.
No reason for billet 4032, if you look at these you can see how they are machined and can see how the machinist can make the compression distance changes so easily; http://www.buyracingparts.com/pisto.../autotec-455-buick-forged-dished-pistons.html I would imagine that the raw forging diameter would be a couple hundred thousands bigger or so as well to give a bore diameter choice. And even though they don't mention wrist pin diameter changes in the ad I'm sure that can be changed as well but may be charged for that change, not sure. And Paul, if you click on the above link you will see the box and strut design you were talking about having billet 2618 pistons made like. I guess you haven't read all the posts or you wouldn't of wrote that because those pistons COPRESSION DISTANCE CHANGES CAN BE MADE AT NO ADDITIONAL COST, COMPRESSION DISTANCE CHANGES CAN BE MADE AT NO ADDITIONAL COST. Hey Paul, did you know that these pistons can be ordered with a compression distance different than what is listed? Oh yeah, that's what I have been trying to get across. Piston diameter changes can be made at no additional cost as well, take a look at them I think you'll like them. Not an all out race piston, but if someone is building a N/A engine without nitrous or boost they can't go wrong with them. And Tony, if you make a 2618 piston thick and heavy enough it can last millions of miles in a low RPM diesel engine, yes. As soon as you make it thin enough and light enough for a gas engine race piston it will be more prone to distortion and wear in a much higher RPM environment. So the thinner lighter gas race version 2618 piston is idling @ lets say 1,000 RPM and @ 3,600 RPM @ highway speed while the diesel is idling @ 500 RPM and cruising @ 1,800 RPM on the highway.(depending on gearing RPM can differ) When either one does a WOT lead foot stomp, the gas engine can see 10,000 + RPM(depending on what gas engine it is) while the diesel would only see 3,600 RPM MAX(depending on what diesel engine it is). So lets see, the thinner lighter gas race piston in a more extreme RPM environment at sometimes as high as a diesel engine compression ratio should last as long as its diesel counterpart piston? Is that what you're tying to say? ou: So do you still want to use the diesel piston reference as a comparison? o No: Derek
I also agree with using aluminum rods, and Gary said that he would build it to last, he does expect it to live long I think he said? Have to go back a few pages or maybe Gary can refresh our memories on what he expects out of a build like this. Is it a going to be a 750 HP dyno bomb, or something that will last beyond the dyno and make it into a car? Gary, do yourself a favor and add the jock strap(girdle). Derek
Served it's purpose. It was in the piston material copy/paste BTW. I actually didn't know that until... Yes. I have a hard time keeping my posts less than novel-length. You were inspired to do it Derek. :grin: I appreciate the skilled and experienced insight, that's the type of contribution the thread needs. Right now your opinion is more valuable than Darin Morgan's, call him and he will set you straight...just kidding (sorry). Hoping most will see the amount of sarcasm I use as there are a lot of differing opinions on the board. It's hard to get one's point across without a little butt-hurt. I'm ass-uming that most of the forum members see the physical differences and needs between the gas and diesel. Now there's some clarification as to...why. Scuffing is still a problem with diesels... when they do, it's ugly. Many myths are being dispelled here. I think even we say nearly the same things, differently. Yes, compression heights and other features can be moved easily by changing a # in the program. Cycle time doesn't vary much from one piston type to another. Glad they don't charge for some of these things! So, do we have a target bobweight for Gary's engine yet? Can we get it light enough to exclude mallory?
Derek You misunderstood my short reply to 8ad-f85. Billet pistons are fairly new and the customers including me are only looking at applications that require the 2618 alloy so no one is asking Diamond, CP, JE, ..ect for billet 4032 alloy pistons so they only carry specific 4032 forgings as a result. We order billet pistons, the last set was from Diamond that cost well over $2000 after the addition machining and anodizing. I also order custom pistons directly from Randy at Autotec so I'm well aware of what is available. I did say that I was going to ask all those that Manufacture billet pistons if they would be willing to do a 4032 alloy billet. I'll be at PRI in Indianapolis this December 11-13. I will let you know what they have to say. Paul
As it usually does it will depend on the finished cylinder head. If the combustion chamber volume can be made small enough a flat top piston can be used to get a 13.5:1 or more compression ratio. One of the problems is; if you just flat mill a BBB head the valves get closer and the pistons end up with large valve pockets which require extra material on the piston head and also adds volume back into the equation. Now you need to investigate the possibility of angle milling. A 4.350" flat top billet piston with a short CD should come in at 550 grams without the pin. The narrow piston box allows for a very short and light pin. Paul
You may be right, I found this quote from him.... Either way, to do all that without a girdle and then do it again with a good block seems a little backwards but each to their own...
Yeah, that's a very early 1,000 HP "dream" build from #68 post before it all evolved into the 750 HP challenge engine. I'm not sure if he said if the 750 HP challenge engine was going to be a dyno bomb or not, but I think he said it will be 750 HP and stay together? Probably in the 150 to 300 number posts if you have time you might find the answer? If Gary would chime in and remind us of his self imposed rules that would make it much easier. Derek
Just to point this out, the stock 5.4 rods (at least the common truck ones..) tend to fail around 500 horsepower with a comparatively light, narrow bore, piston attached to them. The junkyard engine turbo guys can attest to this. Anyone running serious boost (15+psi) in a modular motor has replaced the rotating assembly or started with a pricey extra performance OE short block. Continue on
Good to know thanks, was a longshot but I thought maybe if they used the same rods in the super charged Lightning engine they might work. Derek
