Intermittent starting

Hello, I have a Buick Skylark with a recently installed 455. Car starts cold no problem but the problem seems to occur after the engine is hot. If I shut the car off, nothing happens at all when I turn the key. They only things that come on are the electric fans. There is absolutely nothing else, it’s like the battery is dead, but I know it is not. After I open the hood for a couple of minutes and let it sit, it suddenly turns over. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanking you in advance.
Brad Martin

 

Taking the simple approach on this one, but it sounds like starter heat soak to me, or possible starter connection problem. Have headers by any chance? I feel headers can sometimes make the problem worse, as they can sometimes lay really close to the starter on the way out, depending on the headers, of course.

 

Have you actually tested the battery? Your statements have a few conflicts (nothing happens - the fans come on); (you open the hood for a couple of minutes, let it sit, it suddenly turns over). Does it suddenly turn over, (like a ghost is at work) or do you get in and turn the key and then it cranks?

 

Im going with heat soak for 200.00

 

I had this same issue only it took several hours of cool down before the starter would go. A remote starter solenoid solved the problem for me. Do you have the factory heat shield in place? If that is missing, I would try installing that first and see if that does the trick, before trying a remote solenoid.

 

It's especially an issue if you have a header tube right next to a stock starter. I got a mini started which gave slightly more distance between the long tube header collector and then I wrapped the starter in a reflective fiberglass wrap and it has been that way for about 18 years with zero issues. Also, not saying your battery "is" an issue, but it should be known that a weak battery can still start your car, but be flaky like this anyway. I just realized a couple weeks ago that even though my current battery was always starting the car, I left the door open for like 2 weeks and it drained the battery to the point that it would not even take a charge or a jump. It was toast. But it was close to toast anyway if it couldn't be even jumped or trickle charged. I never would have known it was close to expired unless I left my door open.

 

Thank you to both of you. I totally agree that the car is laughing at me. Starts totally fine, then nothing then 2 minutes later, it starts. The battery is totally fine. When I’m trying to start it and it’s not turning over, the electric fans start up. I give it a couple of minutes, then I crank it and the engine starts THEN the electric fans kick in. Weird eh ? Also, I do have headers that a very very close to the starter. Is there anything to do to prevent the “heat soak” ? I should have left the stock 350 in it. I must like being frustrated constantly! Thank you very much again for your input !!

 

A definitive test is this.
When it’s hot and will not crank turn your headlights on and your heater blower motor/ ac.

If they work then the battery has a good charge.

next with someone watching your headlights try and start the motor.

If the headlights do not dim out some then your starter solenoid and or its connection to it from the battery is at fault.

my moneys on a heat soaked solenoid.

On one of my cars I jumped out the needed closure connection on my starter and mounted a Ford solenoid on the wheel well.
My other car since it was a much higher compression motor got a gear reduction mini starter.
One cure cost about 50 bucks total, the later a bunch more!

 

Yes, as mentioned earlier, the stock metal heat shield (which I presume is probably missing?) or simply a reflective fiberglass wrap. Some people say the wrap holds heat in, but I have not found that. I have found it keeps heat out. This is backed up by the fact that I have never had a heat soak issue since I wrapped it.

 

"Won't crank, doesn't even click" when hot is common as dirt.

Typically the real problem is high resistance (low amperage/low voltage delivery) in the wire harness leading to the "S" terminal of the starter solenoid. The "correct" fix is to trace the source of the voltage drop in the harness, which on cars this old is likely to be one or two really-bad places, and a dozen minor faults. Fix them all, problem solved.

But given that folks are lazy and don't want to search through twenty-plus feet of harness plus a dozen connections and switches, most people put a "Ford Solenoid" or other relay on the fender. The original wiring triggers the relay or solenoid, which then sends appropriate power to the "S" terminal of the starter solenoid.

I'm not saying the problem can't be a failing starter--or made worse by a partially-failed starter. The starter bushings, brushes, armature, and field coils are all somewhat suspect, as is the big copper disc and the matching contacts in the solenoid itself. However, USUALLY, the problem is with the power supply to the "S" terminal of the solenoid. Fixing the OEM wiring, or adding the aftermarket relay/solenoid generally takes care of the no-click, no-crank when hot issue.

Yes, I prefer a metal heat shield over an insulating "blanket"; the heat shield keeps exhaust heat off the starter/solenoid, but doesn't prevent the starter motor from shedding the heat it generates during cranking.

 

Thank you to everyone for your input. Yes it was heat soak that was causing the commotion! Thank you again

 

"Heat soak" of WHAT? The starter motor? The starter solenoid? The wire harness leading to the "S" terminal? Some combination?

 

The mechanic just said he agreed with the ‘heat soak’. Maybe it’s time to find a new mechanic. I’ll have to ask him to clarify. Thank you

 

I agree.
I’ve never had any heat related issues regarding my starter with or without headers.
I’ve ALWAYS made sure my wiring and connections were solid (clean, routed properly)
I know heat can bother gas and carburetors, but electricity
Again unless you have comprised wiring or contacts, is it the chicken or the egg

 

I’m going to have someone do a once over of the wiring etc. thank you