It seems we have an engine done.

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by Houndogforever, Dec 21, 2020.

  1. Houndogforever

    Houndogforever Silver Level contributor

    Capture.JPG


    Jim sent me this on my new motor. Looks like it made great power and will be fantastic for my skylark.
    Once he get's media figured out, I will post the dyno pull.
    I'm so excited to actually hear this beast soon.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. No Lift

    No Lift Platinum Level Contributor

    Should idle nice with a little lope and good vacuum. Plenty of low end grunt for on the street. What are the engine specs?
     
  3. Houndogforever

    Houndogforever Silver Level contributor

    It's a Tri-shield 470, using my cam attached above. Stage 1 iron heads, performer intake, quadrajet. It has the molnar rods (i think) and Autotec pistons and stroke ground per his standard 470 build.

    Going into my 67 which currently has a 2:78 rear end with a fresh built TH400. When shipped, the motor will come with a JW 9-1/2" 3000ish stall converter to tie it all together. Should be fun.

    (edit: I don't know how to post the cam page since it is a pdf. I guess it should be a jpg to show up. or something. sorry)
     
    SpecialWagon65 likes this.
  4. rkammer

    rkammer Gold Level Contributor

    Headers or stock manifolds??
     
  5. Houndogforever

    Houndogforever Silver Level contributor

    It will be stock manifolds. 2-1/2" magnaflow exhaust.
     
  6. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Was the motor dyno'd with those?
     
  7. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    No, for ease and more data we used my dyno headers, so it won't be quite as strong as shown here, but the difference at this level is well documented, so there is no real need to go to the trouble of using the manifolds. Hook up on the dyno with manifolds is much more difficult and time consuming, plus we lose the exhaust temps.


    This motor is what we call a classic "over-achiever."

    A 10-1 470 shortblock, stock 73 Stage 1 heads, untouched performer and a cam that everyone on here, including me, would say is "not the right choice" produced those numbers. Numbers much more associated with a ported iron head motor. I expected to see torque numbers in the 520's and HP in the 400-410 range.

    I am not often surprised.

    This engine is essentially a stocker with a camshaft, with a slightly bigger and more efficient bottom end than the factory produced. Thinner rings rob less power, but that's really the only advantage in power production from parts. The other side of the coin here is that this is a zero deck engine, as opposed to the .030 or more deck clearance the factory motors were built with.

    Here is a full port iron head motor, Hyd roller cam with "ideal specs" and this one was tested with exhaust manifolds. I did test this one with the same headers that are on Jon's motor here, it picked up the predictable 14 HP, and about 20 ft lbs.

    470 Stock appearing.JPG

    As to the cam in Jon's motor..

    He supplied me with an flat tappet hydraulic erson grind, which was 226/227 @.050 with right around .480 lift.. on a 110 lobe center, and it was ground 2* advanced.

    The cam actually was suppose to be closer to what the classic buick grind is, but this one did not come off the grinder as intended.

    Wrong cam is what most of us "experts" would say.

    Yet it produces more torque, and exactly the same power, with headers, that a ported head/intake, roller cam with exhaust manifolds does..

    So quiz for the day..

    Tell me why, the clues are in the sheets in front of you.

    Fuel usage and state of tune is about a horse apiece.. there is not more than 5 numbers in tune up here. Both motors are 470's.

    As to the video, my Sony Handycam 650 had a full memory card on it, so I had to resort to recording onto a mini DVD... I had never installed the camera software on this computer, I had the camera several years before this PC, and was using the memory stick and a video editing program to transfer from the camera to the computer.

    I actually had the original software disc for the camera, with Sony's program, that supposedly allows dvd recored movies to be loaded digitially into my pc. Problem is, neither the disc software, or the downloaded lastest version, will load onto my pc here. It downloads, you click the "run" tab in the download, it begins to extract the program, gets about 95% done, and then dies.. you get a "Can't install this program" failure box, with a big red X...

    I gave up on it over the weekend, asked Mike about it yesterday as we were putting a modified trans tunnel in a GS convert for a 6 speed install.. he shook his head and said "Ya, I hate those, no reason why it won't install, no error, just an FU"... he mentioned finding different software.

    Anyone know of a good software program to transfer from disc to a file?

    My last resort will be to play the disc on my pc, and then record the screen here, with my camera and store it on the memory card this time.

    JW
     
  8. Houndogforever

    Houndogforever Silver Level contributor

    cam.JPG

    There we go. This is the cam spec sheet.
    Originally, this cam was ground based on using SpeedPro pistons, stock rods and crank.
    Then I dumped it all on Jim and let him put it all together. He ordered pistons that would work with this cam, stroked the crank and here we are making history.

    I'm quite happy with these results.
    Jon
     
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  9. pbr400

    pbr400 68GS400

    ...So, we’ll see that car in BSA at the Nats?
    Patrick
     
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  10. Storm1

    Storm1 Silver Level contributor

    Jim try to install the program in Compatibility Mode. Many older software's only run on older operating systems.

    There should be a .exe file that installs the program. Right click the .exe file and go to "Properties"

    There should be a Compatibility tab, click that
    Check the box for "Run this program in compatibility mode for" and choose the likely (old) operating system it used back then.
    I would also click the "Run this program as an administrator" box

    That should get your old camera program to install, maybe!
     
  11. Houndogforever

    Houndogforever Silver Level contributor

    BSA is way too far east for me so no, I won't be driving back from Oregon.

    As to the spin the tires at 30, that is exactly what I was thinking of when I first started this project 8 years ago.
     
  12. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Have JW send along one of his 9.5" converters, you won't regret it.:D

    Edit, saw you have that coming. You are gonna love it. Stab the gas at any speed and that motor is gonna go right to the sweet spot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
  13. SpecialWagon65

    SpecialWagon65 Ted Nagel

    Looks like that is a done deal. I love it - highway gears and convertor meet The Torque Monster.
     
  14. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    On a little dinner break from the shop here, so I tried your suggestions Kevin.. but still no go...:mad:

    So we had to go Caveman :eek: and record my screen during playback on my computer.. didn't turn out too bad..

    Here's the link..

    https://youtu.be/DfdC46wLq7g

    JW
     
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  15. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    I might have a JW converter for sale. Its brand new not installed, and it was intended for the Riviera, but I sold it first before installing. Also, since Jim is here, would it be possible to exchange my big car 9.5" converter for an A Body converter?
     
  16. Houndogforever

    Houndogforever Silver Level contributor

    AWESOME! :) It lost some clarity in the transition, but something is better than nothing. Appreciate the effort.
     
  17. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    Why was #7 exhaust temp lagging behind so far?????? At what temp goes the graph gonfrom green to red......therevwas a big difference between 7 and 8.....is that normal.
     
  18. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Instrumentation..

    That thermo coupling had been giving us an issue lately.

    You see it here too..



    the temp legend for the exhaust is on the left hand side of the graph.. looks like they go green at about 1000 degrees.

    JW
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
  19. Houndogforever

    Houndogforever Silver Level contributor

    I'm going to guess the extended exhaust lift and duration are encouraging the high numbers.

    But I don't know.
     
  20. Max Damage

    Max Damage I'm working on it!

    Since the engine's output is sort of unexpected, wouldn't it be good to dyno it with Stock manifolds too, just to see if the power loss is also unexpected? Jon's comment about the exhaust lift made me think this...
     

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