NATS show rules?

Discussion in 'GSCA events' started by staged70, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. staged70

    staged70 RIP

    I am looking for the rules for the show. I did poorly and would like to see what the rules actually are for the show. I know some the the deductions on my car were detailing, but is there a place where you can see. The 4 or more modifications I understand but, I was dismayed to see that some mods are counted and others weren't.
     
  2. Racerx88

    Racerx88 Platinum Level Contributor

    These are the only rules I've ever seen published. Says they use a 100pt and a 400pt system, but I don't see what exactly that intails.

    http://gsnationals.com/ShowRulesClasses.pdf
     
  3. Doo Wop

    Doo Wop Where were you in '62?

    18.Judging worksheets will be made available 2 weeks after the Nationals, check for details.
    From the .PDF above.
     
  4. mrolds69

    mrolds69 "The Cure"

    John, I'm sorry you were disappointed with your judging score. There is a link from Brad at the bottom of this page from when they were making the rules. I'm not familiar with GSCA judging, but I am familiar with OCA + BCA judging and have judged on the Nats level. Most clubs you can request your score sheet, and most judges encourage that. The reason is that you can look at your sheet and see what areas you need to improve your score. Different judges see different things, and most judges work in teams. I've been docked for wax residue near a chrome molding, I've seen people docked for a few pine needles on the floor! I would ask for your sheet, I would ask other people you know who were there if they noticed any things that were obvious on your car. It is pretty rare for someone to show their car on the Nats level and do as well as they hoped for. Especially if this was your first Nats show. It is not the same as your local Lions club show, where the people pick the "prettiest" car. I would bet the things you were docked for cost little or nothing to fix or change. Don't give up. Get your sheet and go to work!
     
  5. the loon

    the loon Well-Known Member

    John,
    In your packet there should have been an address where you can send a SASE and your judging sheet will be sent back to you in it. The 3 mod rule is simply used to put modified cars into a different class than the stock or near stock (3 or less mods) cars. After a car reaches 4 mods, any more are moot because the car is clearly in the modified class. All that I have said here refers to the placement of show cars into a class and that is where the Carolinas' Chapter's work ends. Another chapter does the judging so maybe one of their members can chime in as to how mods are actually judged. If you can't find the address I referred to, send me a PM and I will get it for you.
    John L
     
  6. JESUPERCAT

    JESUPERCAT No Slow Boat

    Just make sure you have your chrome Buick wheels on and not the hubcaps your car was special ordered with, you may be surprised at the outcome:puzzled:.
    As of a few years ago we no longer show our Wildcat GS's at the shows as many people don't know what they are looking at. You get tired of explaining even when you have all the factory paper work in the window.
    We just park them to the side for people to enjoy. We will show the race cars as they sort of speak for themselves:grin:

    John as others have said request your sheet so you can make things better, or bring ducumentaion for the next show to back up judging errors.
     
  7. lostGS

    lostGS Well-Known Member

    MMMM looking at the rules, seems very vague and the GN/Turbo regal get more love. One for stock 0-3 mods, then 4-10 mods then 11+ mods. There is only GS street machine. I guess that my wagon would be lumped in with everything else, special, skylarks, mustangs with GN motors etc. I thought it was the GS club of America not the GN/ turbo regal Club of America. but I think that is a dead horse. Maybe I'll just say the heck with the screwy GN/TRCA( formally known as the GSCA) and attend the BPG events. Right now they are about the same distance.
    BTW: who was the moron who did the class 69-75 "GS" Convertible. They must not know that no GS convertibles where available after 1972, only hard tops.

    OK, I am stepping off my soap box
    Tim
     
  8. Todd69GS

    Todd69GS Silver Level contributor

    Convertibles were classed as follows.
    1965-1969 convertible
    1970-1972 convertible
    Where did your info come from?

    Edit....I see where it says that on the form. Clearly a misprint. Anyone that was there will tell you the classes were as I posted.
     
  9. 69GS400s

    69GS400s ...my own amusement ride!

    One of the things that always ticked me off was that aftermarket gauges - and in particular an oil pressure gauge - each counted as a Mod - are we supposed to drive our Buicks to these events for hundreds and hundreds of hours without an oil pressure gauge?

    Triple gauge pack ? that'll be 3 modifications thank you ...

    Im not baggin' on the GS Nats here .. I'm baggin' on ANY car show that expects me to drive to their event without basic knowledge of what my motor is doing :rant:
     
  10. Jim Rodgers

    Jim Rodgers Well-Known Member

    Wrong. Gauges only counted as one mod. I personally teched the turbo show cars.
     
  11. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    Last year I took second in the Non GS / Buick powered class. I lost to a car that IMHO was clearly better than mine. The guy that did our judging was very strict and later found out he was a concours judge. But that said its all a wash if the guy judges to the same standard across the board.
    I also felt that the GN's and turbo cars were more prominent than the GS cars that the event is named for. I may go next year, I may not.I might just drag the race car up there and say the heck with the show.
     
  12. 69GS400s

    69GS400s ...my own amusement ride!

    then that is a great move - I can understand not wanting a monster 5" tack hose-clamped to the steering column in "stock" class ...
     
  13. bobbybuick

    bobbybuick Well-Known Member

    Can you tell me where to find results I had the cream regal in j and was told they were calling my name but I was busy cleaning part of my tsm car off the track
     
  14. dl7265

    dl7265 No car then Mopar

    From what I understand( and may be wrong) Duane helped incorporate the same judging system for the GSCA And BPG, from the AACA and BCA rules. One exception is I don't believe at least in the past the AACA is willing to share of discuss scoring. And let's face it all judges aren't experts at every year model. Overwhelming majority of concours classes have been '70 Models, however this they were almost evenly split.

    John somehow I missed your car ? :confused:Which class did you enter in ? I'm sure Sid would be hapy to answer questions after you review the sheet.

    DL
     
  15. Beamer

    Beamer Suncoupes Rule !!!

    Alan,
    If you are driving hundreds of miles, I can see wanting a set of gauges. But as mentioned, a cluster is one mod. You have to understand that. Some TR/GN cars have a pillar gauge pod with up to 4 gauges, 1 mod. They may have 2 more gauges by the shifter below the radio, another mod. Then they have a scanmaster sitting in the dash, another mod. That is how the mods are determined. As far as under the hood, anything that was not factory in sight, headers, chrome valve cover breathers, after market add ons etc. Each item is counted individually.





    As for the TR/GN attendance, everyone really needs to understand that our cars being over 40 years old does not help attendance. Less and less cars are around today. Even less are capable of making the trip either on their own or trailered. TR/GN cars ARE BUICKS, yes they are and they were super examples of their time how Buick encompassed performance into a luxary package car. I truly don't understand why several people still hate on them. Maybe I am more understanding being an owner of one also. These cars help to complete our attendance needs for events. Stop making them unwelcomed. I have never heard any of the TR/GN guys say, those darn GS's, why don't they just stay home.




    Tim,
    While stepping onto the box, you must have got some soap in your eyes. As mentioned, the convertable classes were not like you complained about. You would have noticed that if you would have attended. I will also emphasize that you are again wrong about GN/TR attendance. They will be at the BPG event, so you may as well hang it up for that event also.
     
  16. Duane

    Duane Member

    I set up the GSCA "Concours Class" judging rules. This is a 400 point system, and is basically an updated version of the BCA rules, which is an updated version of the AACA rules. I did this with the blessing of both Richard Lassiter and the then president of the BCA, Roberta Vasilov.

    The only difference between my "Concours classes" and the BCA/AACA classes is the fact that we are a little more "strict". We did this so our members cars would "easily" sail though the classes for both of the other organizations. This kept everyone from getting spanked at the other events and allowed the owners to build a vehicle that could compete at all 3 events. It also meant that the people at the BCA could not bitch about the quality of our restorations, which at one time was very important. There were too many fuddy-duddies there that absolutely HATED our cars, and it was really nice to "smack them in the face" with our superior restorations, and see they had NOTHING to bitch about.

    The GSCA does not follow the regular/Street car classes that I set up for the BPG.


    For the BPG:
    I spent a lot of time thinking about how to set up a set of rules for the regular cars, where a nice original car would be on an even par with a slightly modified "Street Machine", or a car that was restored to a lower level then the Concours Classes. The reason I did this was because the BPG is a performance oriented club, and I saw no reason to "cripple" a car for that reason.

    Historically, either Sid or I have sent the Judging sheets for the Concours classes to all the participants of the GSCA & BPG.

    I don't know if either the GSCA or BPG offer the same service for the regular class participants.
    Duane

    PS. DL is correct, the AACA does not share their judging sheets to the participants. I personally do not agree with this, as it does not give the owners a chance to "better" their cars..................................however I do understand their reasoning, as it would keep the amount of complaints down. Also their shows have hundreds if not thousands of cars being judged like this. It would not really be reasonable for them to supply sheets in such numbers.


    PSS.
    In years past many in the BCA absolutely hated seeing those "loud abnoxious" GS cars showing up at their events. That was really wrong in my opinion, and we have sucessfully fought that battle.

    It would be nice if we, as performance Buick owners, did not continue that type of "small town thinking" with the GN owners. Even though I have no interest in owning one I can appreciate them for what they are, and they should be welcomed to the ranks with open arms.

    We should be better then our elders have been in the past.
     
  17. lostGS

    lostGS Well-Known Member

    Micheal, I may have gotten soap in my eyes. But it was no more tears so I am good. I was stating that whom ever posted the classes on the GSCA web site wasn't paying attention. period. I love any performance Buick be it a 61 Invicia or a 2013 Turbo regal. IMO,TR/GNs are on the came level as the GS. What I was up set about is the TR/GN has more classes than the GS, 2, stock or street machine or even the A-body in general, one class Buick boded or Buick powered. So my wagon could be up against a Skylark with a duramax in it or the 89 Trans Am with the 3.8 turbo. doesn't seem far.

    Oh I would love to attend but 1: Don't have the $$$$$ right now. 2: NOT going to drive my wagon on icy roads and risk damage to get there or back home. 3: NOT going to trailer my wagon, it is built to drive, plus don't have a trailer anyway.

    I am grateful for those who got the BCA to look at performance Buicks in the same light as other Buicks. I know the OCA has there performance division. My best friend is active in it. Even driving one of the 2 H/O wagons in the 100th anniversary parade in Lansing. (IIRC it was the Medical car)

    Tim
     
  18. Beamer

    Beamer Suncoupes Rule !!!

    Sounds great Tim

    Sometimes it is not easy to understand what is being said in a thread. We can't hear the tone of voice or see facial expressions.

    I do know that there are a few that hate the GN/TR scene. We have to embrace every facet of our community to keep it lasting.

    Peace out, be safe !


    Mike
     
  19. Mike B in SC

    Mike B in SC Well-Known Member

    I remember an article in the GSXtra many years ago that Richard wrote. He said that he entered Old Blue in a BCA show. He pulled in his spot and started cleaning out the trunk. He pulled out a pair of mounted slicks that he brought because after the show he was going racing at a local track. A couple of BCA old-timers asked him what he was doing with those tires. He told them he was going racing after the show. One of them said to him, "Son, you can't race with them tires, they don't have any tread left on them!". It may have been at the same show where he heard a man tell his wife not to look at Richard's car because it was "too performance"!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2013
  20. Brad Conley

    Brad Conley RIP Staff Member

    Actually, it was Dale Collins that was said to about his 1970 Diplomat Blue Stage 1. I was standing at his trunk at the time when the "judges" started "judging". June 1981 at Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio. "A day that will live in infamy!!!" :)
     

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