Need help identifying Muncie

Hi Folks,
any chance to identify the type of transmission based on attached pics? It comes from a 67 Olds 442.
Would that fit and be ok between a 500HP Buick engine and a 3.23 rear?









Almost forgot: Happy Thanksgiving to you guys across the pond.

 

68-70 M20 with a aftermarket Hurst bolt on handle.

 

M-20 wide ratio

Street tires, no wheel hop, and hope you don't hook up hard.

 

THX!
So it's 50/50 for now. I asked for the serial number, will that help?
The bellhousing should fit for the BBB, right?
What would be the going rate nowadays?

 

Looks like someone cut the input shaft shorter that goes into the pilot bearing.

 

I suggest you buy a newer one, that’s a 10 spline input, find a M20 with 26 and 32 output. Or best bet a M22 you won’t break.

 

Many thanks for your input.
Some more food for thought:
I do not drag race the car, however it see some occasional loud launches (when I suddenly become 40 years younger and turn into a teen again).
Availability of Muncies here in Germany is next to nothing.
I could get that particular one including pedal, shiftlever and boot for about 1.200€ which is approx. 1.300 USD. Is that a decent price to start with?

 

(when I suddenly become 40 years younger and turn into a teen again)

I hear you.

Cost me a few parts along the way. Most notable are the past few years.

The Borg Warner T-10 in my '64 Skylark* (with the 2x4 nailhead).
The '68 Skylark and BBB ate my ST400 and ST300 converter.**

*Also had a Gear Vendor's OD unit and "buttoned" from Lo to Hi in third gear and it went "bang". Not sure why it let go, but the RPM was in the 2600-300 range and that is in the peak torque of a nailhead. But, it lead me to the Tremec TKO that I should have gone with at the start, but nostalgia got the better of me.

**Suspect the converter may have been damaged in shipping, after the fact "Post Mortem", the engine is pretty strong, and I had just about 500 miles on it when the "problem" started showing it self. Again, it lead me the the Tremec TKX, but I wanted to go with the "period correct" ST400/Switch Pitch.

In the end, I always liked "pedal cars" more than an automatic for street driving, and should have gone that route with both cars. Having done all and dealt with the "journey", I am more than happy with both cars and the manual transmissions now.

My point?

I drive them like I stole it (or have a fat wallet to support it).
I do it for love, for fun and because I can. And always aware that I can break it every time I drive it.
But that is why I build it, to drive it like I want.

Otherwise, I can sit on the bench and wait for the next bus...


If you have worked hard in life, taken care of your responsibilities, and you have a few dollars to put into this deal, do what you want and are comfortable with the outcome, and don't leave a place for regrets.


My regrets are only thinking I owed others more that I should have along the way, but looking back and realizing I was wrong.

Don't be me, in your future...

Think it through, ask questions and do not hesitate to question your own choice "before" you commit.

My "reality" may or may not help you. But the long game and other people's experiences can help you push through what you think you want, and help you find what you really want in the end.

 

Seller responded with serial #:
P8P11
Little I know: Built 1968 11day of ?? (what month does P stand for?)
Should it have the identifier A, B, or C, or it is built to early for that?

 

I think it won’t live long behind your 455. Having said that if it’s fresh then $1300 is a fair price.

 

I was going to mention that as well. It likely is going to need a rebuild as I'd want more of the pilot bearing engagement if I was going to run it.

I, too, would not trust it behind a decent 455. 500HP is going to be way more than it can handle unless you are buying it for a core to rebuild and that's a lot of money for a core.

If you go to look at it, grab the input shaft and wiggle it. If it moves around more than just a small amount or you hear and clunking, it will likely need the front bearing from whatever they did to the input shaft at minimum.

 

Hi,

You mentioned it was from a Oldsmobile, only stick engines were drilled for a pilot bearing and one of the work around is to put a an adapter bushing in and cut the input shaft, like how your's appears.

May want to do a few depth measurements from the bellhousing and see how the shaft and pilot bearing line up on you Buick engine.

Regards,
Jim

 

Because of the 2 rings on the input shaft, I believe that's a M-20. see below, also realize many of these Muncie's have been rebuilt and had internal parts changed and swapped from other transmissions.

1. Look for rings around the input shaft: On 66-74 Muncies, an M-20 should have two rings around the input shaft, while M-21's will have a single ring. However, this is a general rule and not foolproof123.

 

Thank you all for the valuable input. Transmission was sold to someone else and based on the input I got here I do not regret that.
For the time being I keep enjoying the comfort with my TH200r and will keep looking, probably for a M22.

 

Using the groove rings method around the input shaft to identify which Muncie you are looking at is accurate. The M 22 has no groove rings around the input shaft. Also to the best of my knowledge all factory built M 22's used the 27 spline input and 33 spline output shaft.

Where it becomes tricky is if there are no groove rings on the input shaft. To the best of my knowledge there are no groove rings around the input shaft of replacement shaflts.

Therefore if there are no groove rings around the input shaft then you will need to put the transmission in 1st gear to count the revelations of the input shaft to 1 turn of the output shaft. Or remove the side cover to count teeth on the input shaft and look at the helical cut of the teeth on the gears. The M 22 has teeth that are much straighter cut to increase the strength.

 

Hi,

I wouldn't go for a M21 or M22 as both are close ratio (2:20 1st gear), if using 3;23's as typically they came with 3:55/3:73/3:90/4:30/4:56.

If you want a stronger 4 speed look at a Autogear newer version of a Muncie as they also make a wide ratio (2.54 1st gear) with a 30 degree helix like the M22, believe they call it or did when I got mine a M22W. I am running it since 2013 with 3:55's and no complaints about the transmission.

Regards,
Jim