New Buildup! 448ci STG 2 SE Hyd roller.. an MPG motor

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by Jim Weise, Jul 27, 2012.

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  1. 69GS400s

    69GS400s ...my own amusement ride!

    Did he really go there ?!?!?
     
  2. elagache

    elagache Platinum Level Contributor

    Narrow whitewall radials nearly extinct. (Re: 448ci STG 2 SE Hyd roller..)

    Hi Sean and V-8 Buick tire experts,



    Yes, I was aware of the offerings from Coker. There are Coker 205/70-R14 tires on the car now. However, Coker doesn't seem have have narrow whitewall radials anymore. They have redline radials, but that seems a little odd and doesn't sound appealing on a Seafoam green car. They have the wide whitewalls, but it is going to look really weird on a 60s era car.

    It is a little early to worry about this yet. Until the car can be road tested, it isn't clear what size tires are needed. I'm getting some opinions that my 14" rims will have to go, others aren't so sure. The only reason I'm keeping this one on the issue list is that tires that would look appropriate on the car seem really rare. So I might have to do a lot of digging to find anything suitable.

    I'll start up a fresh thread on this one when it is more clear exactly what sized tires are needed on my trusty Billy Goat wagon,

    Cheers, Edouard :beer
     
  3. elagache

    elagache Platinum Level Contributor

    *IT* has reawakened!! (Re: 448ci STG 2 SE Hyd roller.. an MPG motor)

    Dear fans of assertive but user-friendly engines,

    I have news about this particular Jim Weise creation that has been languishing for much too long. Work at Orinda Motors is feverish and at last - IT - has reawakened!!

    I just posted this video on You-Tube:

    <iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/0uVngRp1pwA" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

    Unfortunately, the oxygen sensor on the EZ-EFI system is spooked because the exhaust system isn't hooked up. As a result the engine cannot idle. Worse some of the parts needed for the exhaust system aren't the correct size, so I'll need to do a little scrambling to get that all straightened out. However, fans of this engine rejoice! :) We are getting closer to getting it on the road!

    Cheers, Edouard :beer
     
  4. rollerball

    rollerball Well-Known Member

    I have bought the exact same cam from Jim and we have now completed the installation in my E-headed 467 Skylark with a brandnew SS700-5-speed...all i can say is WOW....this cam idles like a charm, pulls tons of vacuum and has brutal power early, in the middle range and at the top....the power curve is not the typical "mountain" but it is like a plateau......really reminds me of modern LS-engines....Jim, it seems like the modern formula of low duration coupled with extrawide LSA works also on these old engines...my engine builder will call you to buy another one for another Buick customer....he was IMPRESSED!!!
     
  5. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Thanks, that sounds good.

    With the tech we enjoy now, there really is no reason to have lumpy idle and low vacuum in these performance motors. That's a thing of the past, as long as you don't mind the extra coin to go roller.

    It's having your cake, and eating it too..

    I just spent some time driving the first 470ci version of this motor, and it reminds me of driving a stock GS455 on steroids. Very mild 650rpm idle in gear, just the slightest hint of a lope.. 17+ inches of vacuum..

    Very strong just off idle, pulling away from the stoplights. Great power in the 1500-2500 range where the bigger cam motors often feel a little weak.

    And it doesn't give up, pulls hard right to the 5250rpm shift point of the BB trans governor.

    And works just fine with my 12"VP converter, in low stall. Long gone are the days switching the converter to high stall at a light. Just no need. The converter is only there for sticky DOT's and Saturday night drags.

    Glad to hear you like it as much as I do.. I think in the years to come, this type of cam/build for the 500ish hp performance level with Alum heads, will become "Standard equipment".

    This one actually has the 70 untouched Stock intake, and a 71 Q-jet on it... made like 498 HP. Only "speed parts" visible are the headers.

    Sounds and looks stock otherwise.

    JW
     
  6. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    I'm tempted to purchase one....... I have to pull the engine this winter anyway due to a clutch issue.
     
  7. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Based on what I've seen, they are pretty much neck and neck, though the only real reason to use Stage2 over Stage1 would be (as in this example) better header fit. Seems the Stage1 does just as well, though I've noticed better torque numbers from the Stage1 with similar HP vs the Stage2, so I see no reason to ever go Stage2 unless header fit and/or higher end applications/forced induction were determining factors.

    Buicks seem to do well with camshaft exhaust emphasis and Stage1 exhaust runner designs.



    Jim: excellent work! This is the first time I recall seeing this thread, and it's nice to see that the camshaft theories I've been entertaining have a solid foundation backed up with empirical evidence. :TU:
     
  8. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    Gary

    If you are looking at the difference strictly from a power perspective, maybe.
    If the stage 2 does indeed have more exhaust port flow allowing the use of less exhaust valve duration, then the overlap is decreased giving better intake manifold vacuum and possibly fuel economy.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  9. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    I was looking at the difference from more than just a power perspective.

    If all you did was decrease the exhaust duration, then yes it will decrease overlap. The camshaft would be designed with overall engine efficiency in mind, so a properly designed camshaft for a Stage1 would have more than just a slight increase in exhaust duration vs one used for a Stage2.

    For some reason the Buicks do well with their original designs. Adding Chevy style exhaust ports and Chevy style camshafts isn't necessarily going to transform the Buick into a better engine with increased vacuum and gas mileage.

    There's more to consider, like decreasing the intake duration slightly as well as increasing exhaust duration slightly (this alone will negate the 'less overlap' argument), split pattern centerlines along with a wider LSA to give the engine a wider power band, smoother idle, better vacuum, and gas mileage.

    Otherwise with the bigger is always better mindset, why not just use same size valves for exhaust as intake and use 4" primary headers for all that extra low end torque, vacuum, and gas mileage. While we're at it, we'll round out the intake ports so they're like Chevy too, so it'll flow just like a Chevy from start to finish, then we can use those higher lift intake lobe cam designs and get rid of those pesky extra large CFM carbs. :grin:

    It's ok though, I've heard rhetoric like this from Chevy guys before. ;)


    All due respect Paul. Just having a bit of fun. There's pros and cons everywhere you look.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  10. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA


    Jim,I see that the 470 above is using a "untouched Stock intake",what heads did you use for this one? Is this a cast iron block,with aluminum heads,with a cast iron intake? Thanks

    Derek
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2013
  11. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

  12. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482


    Derek,

    470 shortblock-- that's a cast iron deal, with STG 1 SE heads with my bowl and chamber porting.. Super Stage hyd roller cam, and headers, and yes, an untouched 1970 cast iron intake, and a 71 Q-jet.

    JW
     
  13. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Thanks Jim,interesting combo. I would guess that you used composite intake gaskets to help keep it sealed of vacuum leaks,because of the diferent expansion rates of cast vs aluminum? Or do you think this is something that would have to be monitored frequently? Thanks


    Derek
     
  14. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    I did Derek, and have built that combo before.. do a search for "sneaky 500 HP engine".

    We have not had any problems with the sealing of the iron intake/alum head combo.

    This engine is like that sneaky 500 motor, but idles even nicer.. almost like stock, and that good low rpm driveablity really makes a difference.

    I wanted the iron intake to retain the stock well choke with the 4MV Q-jet, and I was able to manipulate the adjustments to allow it to start with a full choke, and then drop out almost completely when you bump the throttle. This is required because it takes quite a while for the spring to relax, as there is no choke heat of any time available with the alum heads.

    JW
     

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