Powerjection III Install and Review

Stroke
I run my fuel pressure at 75 lb. They will take more that 60lb.

Injector specs for PIII:

Siemens DEKA IV Mototron 60lb/hour High Impedance Injectors ( Long Style )

Genuine Siemens / Mototron DEKA IV ( DEKA 4 ) High Impedance Injectors

These injectors flow 60 lbs/hr at 43.5 PSI ( 3 BAR ) and up to 85 lbs/hr at 87 PSI! In addition, these units are high-impedance. Despite the high flow rate, they are linear and controllable at low pulse widths and have been used in ULEV applications! This allows you to use a larger injector than normally possible without hurting idle and low speed driveability. Adding to the flexibility of application, these units are high-impedance; making them compatible with most ECUs, while delivering the most flow available in a High-Impedance injector.

These injectors are able to function at high fuel pressures and dont exhibit the high fuel pressure handling problems found with many other high flow high-impedance injectors. This makes these injectors very well suited to turbocharged and supercharged applications that see high fuel system pressures.

Engine performance and running quality are enhanced through the optimized spray pattern. Unlike competitors pencil stream high flow injectors; these High Flow injectors utilize a multi-orifice tip providing a true 30 degree spray pattern for improved mixture preparation. This results in lower BSFC and better idle quality than many injectors with less flow.

The EV1 injector connector can be found on many older and late-model OEM applications such as the GM TBI, TPI, LT1, LT4, LS1, some LS2, some LS6 and most European applications. We also offer the same injector with the EV6 / USCAR connector as Part Number MOTR-04557. Buy only the injector with the connector you need and eliminate the need for in-line adapters or having to change the factory connectors!

Features:

• Genuine, reliable Siemens Injectors
• Excellent response characteristics
• Robust Design
• High Impedance
• Low Impedance performance characteristics with High Impedance Compatibility

Specifications:

• Coil Resistance: 12.5 Ohms / High Impedance / High-Z (No ECM driver modifications required)
• Static Flow Rate @ 43.5PSI ( 300kPa ) w/Gas: 60 lb/hr = 630 cc/min = 453 g/min
• Static Flow Rate @ 87PSI ( 600kPa ) w/Gas: 85.7 lb/hr = 900 cc/min = 648 g/min
• Gain: 0.11ms/mg
• Offset: 0.055ms
• Turn on time @ 14VDC: 1.14ms
• Turn off time: 0.85ms @ 600KPa
• Connector: Bosch EV1
• Series: DEKA 4 ( DEKA IV )
• Orifice Type: Multi-orifice
• Spray Pattern: 30 Degree Spray Cone
• Factory fitted with Viton upper and lower o-rings

 

Schum,

So if I am currently running at 60psi, should I have adjusted the injector flow in the fuel wizard? I changed the target torque but left the injector rate at 60 pounds.

Is there a chart that shows pounds flow verse PSI for that injector. If I jump up to 75psi it would give me a little more buffer since my engine is putting out just a hair over 600HP. Would 75 psi yield somewhere around 78 pounds?

Glad to know the injectors can handle so much more, I was ready to drop some $$ on new ones to be on the safe side. Hate to go lean up top.

Thanks!

 

Hi Michael from Denmark here

sorry for not replying on the post's about the crazy RPM with key on-not running MSD box problem on the 66 chevelle ZZ383

we have changed the MSD 6AL to a MSD BTM box no deferense the voltmeter is jumping around
we then moved the green RPM wire away from the distributer and it stop'ed ?? but now it will only run in the after start secounds but as i can see from othes that has the same promblem the the key volt has to be looked after i have even bolted a new pjIII on the car with same result

About the nitrous and A/F Bryce told my to remember to take it out of ADL when using nitrous i have just looked at some old log's that i have from the 66 mustang ( i have listed the car on page 12 or so) when i hit the button the A/F is 11.5-11.8 the secound i release the button it goes to around 12.8-13

tommorow im installing my 3. pjIII on a 69 corvette home build 383

sorry my spelling

 

So how do you change the A/F only under spray? Just taking it out of ADL and then jetting the spray?

With a 6AL the green wire off the PJIII does not go to the distributor, just to the tach output wire on the 6AL box. Double check the key wire as it will cause all sorts of trouble if it does not stay steady when cranking.

 

Hi stroker

im running a wet system (cheater plate) and the jet's that NOS recomended
i have a T fitting from the pump and a hi-press. safty switch and it's seems to work fine 1/8 mile burn out on slicks

about the MSD key thing i'm pretty sure that it is a bad wire thing

 

I am running 75 lb fuel pressure and I change the injector flow rate to 78. Had it out today and my max DC is about 80%
Here is a calculator posted earlier by Dr. EFI

 

hello michael from denmark
just a quick install update on the corvette today 9.72 cranking volt fire'ed right up 1100 rpm drop't slowly down to 875 took it for a test drive and work'ed perfect but i thing the is something wrong with the little jack on the pj or the cable when i have the computer connected and the ignition on (engine not running) everything works but when i start to drive it looses connection and can't read files ???

 

I also have been a lurker to the board and am having some tuning issues with my build.

I will be posting more specs on my build later and the problems I have been having.

I'm still trying to take in all 940+ posts that I have recently read.

My first question is ...

How accurate are the Af/R numbers? Has anyone ever tested what the display shows versus another meter?

 

I have a dash mount wide band (AEM UEGO) with a bosch O2 probe. It's spot on with the PJIII dashboard read out. The PJIII is on the driver's header collector, the dash mount is on the passenger.

My guess is the quality of the probe is more suspect than the gauge read out.

 

A better comparison for speed and accuracy would be against a calibrated controller with an NTK sensor. Otherwise it's meaningless.

 

Adding to my basic questions. (maybe it will help someone else)

When selecting the cam type based on Vacuum do you use the vacuum readings in the software or directly read from the port on the back of the manifold. Mine are somewhat different.

On the the dashboard I see 16.9 idle and 20 @ 2500
On the port I see 11 and 15 @ 2500

My cam specs are .315 lobe .535 valve lift 112 LSA Cam is ground 4* advance so intake centerline is 108 and exhaust is 116 Duration @ .050 is 220 in and 226 ex

 

Use what the dashboard shows.

The port you use for your vacuum gauge may be pulling manifold vacuum, not ported vacuum like the ECU monitors.

When I tap my vacuum advance in with the PJIII line it hunts for idle. When I run manifold vacuum on a separate port it idles fine.

The front fitting is ported, the rear is manifold vacuum(For brake booster etc..)

I would set the cam at a Performance RPM. Also note the vacuum will vary greatly with idle rpm. If you idle at 1000rpms it may seem like a street performance cam. Drop it down to 750-800rpms where a carb guy would have it and it would have less vacuum and be a Performance RPM cam.

I found changing the cam setting did not seem to make a huge difference as long as you are close. I should run at a Pro Street setting but changing to Street/strip showed no difference on the butt dyno or readings.

 

There are 2 vac fittings at the front. The upper one is ported vac and the lower one is manifold vac.

The cam and intake settings will change the shape of the fuel curve. If they are not right your ADL will pull or add fuel were it is needed, that is until it hits its set limit. You can always go in and up that limit. I found my engine liked more fuel up top and less fuel down low so I changed the setting in Manifold/cam manager and created my own fuel curve. Here is my manifold/cam manager and my fuel curve.

 

Need some help again. I finally got out to do some driving. Tried a couple weeks ago and blew out my radiator. New one installed and ready to roll.

Starts great. Revs nice. Hauls Arse.

However once warmed up at a stop with the clutch in, when I gently rev the engine she tries to die. I then have to feather the gas pedal to get her to catch again. The clutch is in the entire time.

Looking at my logs when it happens I see a couple things happen.
1. Voltage drops to 10v or a tad below, maybe due to dropping rpms...
2. Rpms drop and IAC does not seem to adjust quickly (Sticking?)
3. Injector mode goes back to cranking for a second then "from to" for a second, then back to auto if I get her to recover quick enough.

I am going to increase the lower accel Pw values to see if it helps. It only seems to hesitate when I gradually bring up the rpms. o No:

Here's a couple sexy PJIII pics with the new radiator installed. Just noticed there are 39 pages and very, very few install pics other than the OP.

:kodak:

 

10 volts? Either your battery is junk, or your electrical system has some serious faults.

Even with your alternator not working, you should have enough battery power to get home.

Since this is a swap into a euro-car, I am going to guess it is a wiring issue - I doubt you have a 7 year old battery from behind the shed.

First check the resting voltage of the battery, right at the posts with the engine off & no loads. what is that voltage?

I see a 10SI alternator, and an electric water pump. Any other big electrical loads on that little alternator? Electric fans?

How does the output from the alternator reach the battery?

How does the battery power reach the vehicle's OEM system, and where does the Powerjection draw it's power from?

B.

 

Stroker

Can you zip a log fill and post it so we can look at it.
The only two things that I can think of that would make it go into cranking then "after start" would be if the RPM's dropped below 400 and then came back up or the voltage went out on your ign. trigger line.

I had the car out yesterday and found it had a stumble just off idle but not near as bad as yours. After looking at my logs I think it is from the IPW spiking as it goes through the first couple of cells. I think because it goes through the cells so fast and the O2 doesn't react that fast and it is still showing leaner than I have it set for. So the ADL keeps adding fuel. It was up to +45 at one point. If I gently pump the throttle up to about 8% I can make it flood and start to stall. Today I am going to zero those cells and lock them and see what happens. In the screen shot you can see the IPW spiking as high as 4200 then coming down after it leaves those cells.

 

Battery seems fine, once I feather the gas it runs fine and restarts evey time. Alternate is an upgraded unit in a 10si casing. 130a with an smaller pulley for good idle output. I do have the water pump and a big electric fan. I have both of them on a switched powering. If I can get it to stumble again today, I'll momentarily turn them off to see if it makes a difference with less current drawn. Power wire for PJIII is straight off the battery. The key wire is also straight off the battery with an online switch on the dash.

I'm thinking its my accel shot. Looking at A/F it seems to spike right as I touch the pedal. Again with more delta TPS it seems better, but thats not going to be gentle on my clutch to wing it up and then feather the clutch out at every stop. Also feathering the TPS causes several quick delta adding more fuel with the accell program. Leads me to believe the large cam wants more initial shot. With the carb I was on the biggest shot cam for the accelerator pump.

 

Had the car out. Zeroed the cells that were making it spike and locked them. Felt a lot better. You can see from the screen shot the spike and the stumble is gone.

 

You state that the logs show the input voltage to the EFI is "10 volts or a tad less".

THAT is a problem - for any system. On any 12v system, the KOEO voltage better be above 12v. KOER should be above 13.5 - even at the lowest idle speed.

I don't know what year that 928 is, or I would pull the wiring diagram. even without pictures, here is the basic layout for a 1985 928:

Battery is in the back of the car. A 2 gauge cable feeds the starter solenoid. The fuse panel feed is taken from the solenoid, and the alternator output is connected to the solenoid terminal as well. The solenoid terminal serves as the junction block.

The original Bosch alternator used a pair of wires to feed the output to the solenoid. They would be completely inadequate for an alternator output of 130 amps. You should have a 6 gauge (or larger) wire running directly to the starter solenoid terminal.

Your main power for the EFI should come directly from that starter terminal as well, through a suitable fuse.

IF you have a solid battery (what is that resting voltage?), and the alternator is connected properly - that leaves the ground side of the circuit.

Check the ground at the battery - is it clean where it bolts to the body? Or has it remained untouched for two decades?

The engine should have a solid ground to chassis as well, with a wire suitable for carrying the cranking current.

B.

 

Thanks Bohica!

As this is one of 4 928s I have, I have already chased the ground issues. However you did bring up a good point. The cable from the alternator to the starter. I have plenty of output shown at the alternator at idle. However back at the battery it is low. I will change it out when I get back in town next weekend. I will also run the supply wire foe the key and PJII main power to the starter as right now it's straight to the battery

As a side note, I just changed the battery. The old one, although only 3 years old, had tons of down time and would not take a charge. I figured the problem would be solved, however on the way home it still did the same thing. Hauls like a raped ape, but just barely touching the throttle causes a stumble. If I give it about 15% TPS or more it is fine, but then rpms are too high for a smooth launch with out tire squeel. When driving it has a very slight stumble when I nail it. Not much but noticable. At 3000rpms in 2nd, flooring it turn the car sideways and leaves a serious trail of smoke..:3gears:

Good news is the adaptive learn seems very close to my guestimate of torque based on my dynosim. 2 days of driving and no values more then +/-10. Except idle it is still -20a