Track Time Thank you for the input everyone. Paul your last post qouted Brian about track time. Again this is not interupting any PS track time. It would NOT be run during any PS track time. Again I will state NO TRACK TIME would be lost. It is not during qualifing, time trials, rounds or any other time that we are normally racing. RDL my car is not a faster car but a slower car. It is 100% original drivetrain, right down to the cam, pistons, bore, jetting, timing curve, exhaust, trans... Maybe this was just a bad idea to bring Truly Pure Stock cars to a Pure Stock event and revive the fun that put Buicks on the map 20 odd years ago. I am starting to feel there is less politics in the show field at the Mopar Nats than PS racing anymore. I send the cars to shows and I skip attending as they are no fun for me, I like to race. But maybe I should be doing the opposite, seems that would be less controversial. For the life of me I can not understand how this could be so controversial. But I do not want to be in the middle of a mess, it just simply is not worth it to me. It is much to expensive for me to pay someone to ship the car in from WI and race a 15K hemi w/matching numbers if it is going to upset people. I can keep it locked away as garage funiture as it is a safer usage of the car. I do not mean for my response to be taken as me being upset, I am not. I rather just bring a car and race than kick a hornets nest over something that constitutes additional effort for me and the others involved. The status qou is easier and may be the route that needs to be taken. Again thank you for the input. Or any additional input that anyone has. Mark
Mark, you might just be the victim of a bad press release........I thought you were inviting non-Pure Stock cars to the event to showcase them... others seem to think that the cars will still be 'the showcase' event, which now it sounds like it would not be the case. If the cars are going to be run during the normal course of the event, then there is absolutley no reason why it should not be done at the Pure Stock Drags. During qualifying, every one of us have lined up against a friends car. During the shootouts, everyone of us runs against the car we are supposed to. As long as there is no extra pomp and circumstance around the Buick-Hemi shootout, there is no reason not to have it. But if, there is going to be "Special Round" and "Special Qualifying" and "Extra Time to get the cameras in place" blah blah blah, it sounds like it might take away from the normal 130 guys running their cars. Now that I know it's Pure Stock and Purer Stock cars only, I like the idea. I guess you could say I was against the idea before I was for it....... :eek2:
Thanks Guys Please keep in mind I am not the promoter of the idea. I simply offered a car up for the venue. I have been passing along the information as I understand it and as it has developed. That is why I do not want it to become a firestorm around me. I could as simply revoke the use of my car as I did offering it. I do not think that something like this could possibly out weight the other 130 participants. It is not meant to be a showcase offering simply a nostalgic ride back to the MCR article that spawned the Hemi/S1 rivalry and the fact that the article helped MCR create the idea of the Pure Stock Drags. Simple enough in design but obviously not as simple in application. I had braced myself for the potential craziness and backlash the race could cause again, I just was not prepared for it to begin with the formation of the shootout. In particular with my fellow PS racers. I obviously was viewing it within a small context and not considering enough different avenues that could arise. As I said before I am just offering a car to be raced not looking to be a lighting rod. If I become central piont I rather have someone else volunteer a replacement car for mine. If someone had an equally qualified car to replace mine I would happily stand aside and be an avid viewer. I talked to Dan and he foresees it running after the races are finished. So it certianly should not be a showcase just an aside to a great weekend of racing. Which from my vantage piont the Pure Stock Drags are the finest venue for us old car guys bar none. Mark
no problem Mark, I'd love to see your car run, as the muscle Gods intended. I went back and reread everything, and I see where the topic changed without warning. Initially the shootout was going to be Pure Stock, FAST and other cars......so when the Pure Stocks was offered as a host race, the radar went up. As you have further clarified the shootout, we can see that is not the case. I think having your car and a Buick just like it will do nothing but enhance the event. When I am off pimping the event on other forums, I mention cars like your brothers' untouched LS6 Vette, Casey's 12K mile Biscayne, Jim Mattison's museum quality Split Window fuelie vette, Rob Clary's real Yenko Camaro, and a host of other beautiful high dollar cars that attend the event. When the parade car owners learn that cars rarer and more expensive are coming to Stanton to flog their cars, suddenly it seems possible to these owners that they too can come out and run their prized cars down the track. I bet half the guys at last years race would never have thought about running their cars at a drag strip until they saw the coverage of the event and convinced themselves it would not only be fun, but also be safe for their car. So bring it out, let's see how it does against an L-79 Corvette :laugh:
L79 Fodder I am not sure it would be a good match for me. Your L79 likely is a better car than the Hemi in its original form. I would likely just be road kill for you to drive around. The car is heavy with options like ps, pbd, am reverb, sound deadening gr, dana 60, console, remote mirrors and so on. I think it will weight in at around 4000 lbs. with me in it. With 100% factory tuning and the way we will run it if this happens, I am not sure that it will go any faster than 13.8's. I have no true idea what it may run but I can not find myself very optimistic about any great times. Mark
Dan and Bob and all those who help organize and actually go through the grief of putting on the event have my confidence that it will be done (or not) at the best time. I'll go with, and be happy with, whatever they decide. :TU:
i can understand all sides , but we all need to trust the people putting on the show.if it were not for dan and bob we would not have had the event that we have today.we always need to stir the pot or else it will get be the samo samo thing.brian you had fun kick'in the snot out of the roush mustang didn't you? think of it as a half time show.not trying to offend anyone but new ideas are always needed to be brought up to keep it new.
Now that it's clear as mud I was thinking this was going to be a multi class shootout between several F.A.S.T. and PS car's. If that were the case, then I would say that Martin was probably the best location for that shootout, but after learning it's between PS car's, I don't see a problem, AS LONG AS, it doesn't overshadow the event, and after your explanation I don't think it will. One in the morning after pairings are handed out, One during the long cool down One after the final two car's run. That is my input, as it will give the driver's opportunity to have a sit down and watch a little racing. I want a crack at the Hemi with the Firebird myself Mark :Brow:
Mark, you have been very involved in this whole thing. Initially it sounded like two F.A.S.T. cars two P/S cars two "Virgin Stock(?)" cars two dogs a cat and a small pony. :grin: Statements like....MCE is going to pre advertise the event to amp it up.....we need more people to make P/S viable......I am working on something else with Dan with your car in mind Donny to make it more fun for you...... Are all statements that tend to lead toward this being big and the main focus which is of great concern. I never once said P/S legal cars should not be allowed at P/S......not once. All I have been saying is........ if it will interfere with participants track time or race format, it will be very unpopular and should be run separatly. If you look at the participants responces.......they agree. If it is indeed small....as now stated...great....run it, no complaint here. :TU: As far as me racing the Roush car.....there wasn't really an event, most had left or were leaving. And just to support my point, the thing I heard the most was "What the hell was that Roush car doing here?" o No:
Question! Is this event going to exclude the F.A.S.T. cars? I know Dave Dudek and others were pitching a Hemi Vs. Stage 1 with the likes of those cars. I would think those cars should be included or is Dave talking about a whole different event? :3gears:
Ralph, You may want to sit on the sidelines and watch before getting bulldozed. The reason F.A.S.T. was started--it gave the guys who were booted from the Pure Stocks as 'cheaters' a place to play. As you might have guessed, the Pure Stockers and the F.A.S.T. guys can be buddies at the F.A.S.T. races, but it is a sticky wicket to try to go the other way. As evidence by the reporting from NJ for Gonzo's race, the press gets hold of a F.A.S.T. car and time slips and the Pure Stock (Factory Stock) car looks silly slow. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching the F.A.S.T. races and appreciate the opportunity to play at Martin (yes, I am planning on going to Michigan twice this year!) but the PSMCDR does not need to be made into a dog and pony show. If F.A.S.T. wants to hold the shootout during the Martin race, fine by me!
If you took all of Miller's old cars and ran a shootout amongst them, you would have to have a whole day to run it............ :moonu:
Involvement Your correct Brian I am involved and got involved when I offered a car for what others were proposing. I would enjoy staying involved up to and to the piont of it crossing over and adding undue stress in my life. Which it is quickly approaching. To put in effort for something people are interested in is no issue for me but I am not going to fight for something that adds little if no value to my life. This was being bandied about in various iterations, but when it was beginning to move towards Stanton behind the scenes I did increase my effort as that was moving into my playground and I was getting feedback from Dan and Bob. Somewhere along the line I became the face of this on this website, but I am not the one who would be running it nor do I have the desire. I simply wanted to enjoy a unique opportunity to run a car I doubt I would otherwise ever bring to a track. I will not alter the car so this is the only venue that would make sense to me. As to MCE of course we talked, myself and Dan write articles for them and they attend the race every year. When something of interest comes up we always have a conversation. That they are interested should be of no surprise, they are the only magazine that gives us any print or due. Even if this year did not satisfy most of us racers. They still put us in when no one else does. For me the owning, racing, and writing is nothing more than a hobby. It is a release from my daily grind. Essentially that has played out well for me, but the minute any of it becomes to stressful or invades on my family time than it is no longer welcome or a hobby to me but just another job. With the amount of distraction this shootout is becoming it is coming onto the radar way to strong for my desires. I do this hobby for fun plain and simple. To whatever happens, I know we will all enjoy a great weekend of racing this fall. Mark
My "1st 2 cents worth" I wanted to take a minute to say hi to everyone and to give you my perspective, one from a person who attended last year's fall round for the first time as a spectator and who will be attending this years fall round as an eagerly waiting participant. I was only able to stay for the first day and we all know that it rained for the most part but the few hours of racing that I saw was fantastic to watch. As an enthusiast, I would love to see a completely stock Hemi and Buick match up followed by a Pure Stock Hemi and Buick. I would not want to see things hault for an hour to do this but done in conjunction with normal passes it would be great to watch. I know they would be highlighting 4 cars but to me it is all in fun and for me that is what it is all about. As a participant who will be entering my 68 Firebird 350 ho Convertible, running these cars in the flow of testing, qualifying or even at the end would not hurt anything. In fact, if they were at the end of sessions it would be nice to make my way up to the stands to see how they do. I have been a member for a few months now and have enjoyed reading posts in this section as I feel like I already know many of you. Mark has been a great friend to me since 1999. Many of you know his green 1970 RA 4 Judge as it is really cranking now and is a very special car to me. I was the prior owner and met him through this transaction. Tom Miller, you probably do not remember but I met you a few years ago in the winter time when you were selling your silver 71 GTO 455 HO car as I was with a friend who came to look at it. Loved your Tropic Lime GTO and your current Firebird 69 350 HO car. Wicked looking :TU: Regardless of what happens, I am looking forward to being a participant this year and being able to put some faces with names :beer Jody Traylor Pontiac, IL
I hear you 100% Small Hurst. And I am not looking to change any of this. If we want to have a shoot out why does it have to be at only one event. Why not have a couple of races thru the year and in different parts of the country. So everyone can participate in it. I would love to face of against Greg at Gonzos E-Town race. Or maybe Bob L and my Black Hemi RR at the Hemmings Muscle Palooza Race in May. It seems like doing this at the PS race may cause a problem. To respond to Gonzo's E-Town Race In the last Hemmings they did a great job going over the top ten F.A.S.T. And F/Stock cars. The people I spoke to refered to both columns and commented on the times equally. In the threatre of my mind it seemed like all of the races I attended- Hemmings, Gonzos F.A.S.T F/Stock E-Town July and Nov. F.A.S.T. MI, it seemed like no matter what class you raced F/Stock or F.A.S.T. you got the same treatment and everyone had FUN. This coming year I am going to the Pure Stock race (if they will let me) and I will finally get to experience and see it first hand. Please no Hate Mail.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: How about we line up all the Hemi's at one end of the track, and all the Stage 1's at the other end of the track and race to the middle? I'd be glad to park my car for a coupla minutes to watch this at the end of the meet! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
