The answer for best handling A body

Discussion in 'Pro-Touring' started by sailbrd, Sep 16, 2015.

  1. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    Had a long talk with Tony from ABCperformance http://www.abcperformance.net/index.html this weekend. Don't have enough time to go over the hour of suspension detail that Tony can tell you about but you can make your frame out perform any of the full frame replacement companies with your frame. They have the track results and dynamic measurements done at the GM proving grounds. I will be boxing my frame with their kit next year and putting in the solid body bushings. Have pics of the demo frame but they won't upload.? The cost on the boxing kit is pretty cheap.
     
  2. Nothingface5384

    Nothingface5384 Detail To Oil - Car Care

    Answer to best handling A body is better driving skills
    Same driver for.driver wont beat the new full frame extreme torque arm kit by Speed tech
    But price difference of bolt on vs aftermarket frames its not worth the slight edge unless youre rolling in $$$

    Speed tech has a really awesome chassis stiffening kit
    But the strongest while also being the lightest would be hellwigs frame FX
     
  3. Nothingface5384

    Nothingface5384 Detail To Oil - Car Care

    Ps dont get why no company makes a solid/billet AL bushing with steel inserts..
    And only 1 company makes such bodymounts for the Fbodies
     
  4. philbquick

    philbquick Founders Club Member

    You need to decide what you want your suspension to do. Whatever you do to your suspension it will be better in some respects and worst in others. Stiffer isn't always better. In Nascar, sometimes they run a rear sway bar and sometimes they don't, depends on the track. Your suspensions job is to keep the tires in contact with the surface below, a real stiff suspension will only work well on a totally smooth surface. It's all psychics 101.
     
  5. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    Stiffer frame and body structure is always better for handling. NASCAR and most oval track cars tend to not run rear sway bars. They do this because they can use much stiffer springs, adjustable suspension components, asymmetrical springs, tires, shocks and a bunch of other tricks.

    Basic philosophy of handling is to have as stiff as possible structure to attach the suspension components to, then tune the suspension components to achieve your goal.
     
  6. Nothingface5384

    Nothingface5384 Detail To Oil - Car Care

    Im in complete agreeance with this
    So take your logic and run with it(apply) regarding the frame boxing stiffening kits
    Abc is just a basic flat channel plate

    HPI and Speedtech is same flat plate but adds stiffening bars to other key elements, further more enhancing structual integrity but while adding weight.

    Now the Hellwig FX kit rids the jungle jim or extra weight and adds non flat c channel plates yielding stronger frame integrity over flat plating along with thier added tubular bars....stronger and lighter
    Sounds like a win win
     
  7. Bygblok

    Bygblok Well-Known Member

    All the talk about sway bars and I have a personal story on this one. I do a fair amount of road racing and drive a 67 shelby gt500 and an 07 gt500 in a couple of different classes. The cars belong to a good freind and I'm fortunate enough to be a "hired gun" of sorts. The 07 is a cool car that has an average tune of around 613rwhp. Handles pretty flat and is gobs of fun to drive. The 67 is a horror story and this is where the whole sway bar thing comes in to play. I autocrossed the car for nearly a year before the first real race we drove and I kept telling Greg that the thing just won't turn. It would push so bad that it was almost scary to drive. We fought it and fought it through different bars, tighten them up, loosen them, removed the rear bar links and just about everything you can imagine. We just thought it was helpless and figured we had it the best we could get it. Horrible. We took the car to Sebring for a track day to just see how we could play and between rounds I was talking with Greg that I was worn out just wrestling it around. There happened to be a guy pitted next to us with a Porsche and he overheard me bitching. He looked at me, looked at the car and asked if the front bar was still on it. I kinda laughed and said yes, and proceeded to say that it wouldn't do anything but push through a corner with the tires as low as I felt safe running them. He told me to bump my pressures back up 10psi and unhook the front bar. I looked at him like he was nuts but we said we got nothing to lose. I unhooked the front bar, tightened the rear up a bit, bumped the pressures back up and went back out. Holy crap, it was a completely different car. It would actually turn hard enough that it bruised my sides on the door! Turns out that with the iron headed 428 we had to run in the vintage class the car was so nose heavy that there was no way in hell it would ever turn! All it would do was push. Something we completely overlooked was a few turns of a wrench from a fix. Turns out the old guy was an old imsa crew chief and he helped us quite a bit getting the car balanced. We still haven't won a race but it at least helped us run without being embarrased and exhausted. Heavy cars don't turn too good is the point I guess I'm making. Sometimes it's more simple than you'll think. Try something off the beaten path and you might be surprised!
     
  8. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    For those that don't know, I'm a Mechanical Engineer at Viking Performance. Tony runs our Crusader Series of coil-over shocks, with Pro-Touring specific valving. Tony is a great guy who knows how to make his A-Body handle. His '70 Chevelle qualified for the Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational this year in Vegas, so that should say something.

    When your talking about your suspension, a multitude of different variable come into play. A key characteristic to keep in mind is the "ride frequency". This is determined by your spring rate, and motion ratio among other things. Additionally, it is also important to know how sway bars and such affect vehicle roll rate, and overall handling characteristics. And further more, chassis rigidity. Each component plays an important in vehicle dynamics, ride quality, and performance capability, and as such each needs to be addressed accordingly.
     
  9. Bygblok

    Bygblok Well-Known Member

    that's interesting because I've been looking at a couple of different coil-over systems for both my 70 Camaro and my 66 Buick Special. I ordered tubular upper and lower front arms today for the Buick(already have them on the Camaro) so I just need to figure out which direction I want to go. The systems I've been looking at all use Viking shocks which is great to me other than I wish they offered a single adjustable instead of doubles only. Viking is blowing QA1 out of the water right now with their quality vs. cash involved. Good job to Viking!
     
  10. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    Bill, is there a reason why you would rather have a single adjustable? A double is able to outperform a single in practically every aspect, since you are able to adjust the compression and rebound valving independent of one another. That is one reason why all we offer is a double adjustable. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you have any questions that I might be able to answer.
     
  11. Bygblok

    Bygblok Well-Known Member

    for my particular use a single adjustable shock is fine to be honest Andy. I always ran doubles on the race cars but these two are just touring set ups for the most part. Just overkill is my only real reason.
     
  12. joejbal

    joejbal Well-Known Member

    I have to say that tall ball joints, new alignment settings and ridetech hq shocks made the biggest difference. I did an scandc setup, one component at a time, and those had the biggest impact.

    ridetech is coming out with a street grip kit soon, its got replacable delrin bushings for the control arms and sway bars, it looks interesting.

    big sway bars seem to hurt my ride quality, im gonna try the delrin inserts that ridetech has for my hellwig bars and see if it improves anything.
     
  13. sailbrd

    sailbrd Well-Known Member

    If you go with ABC be prepared for a long conversation if you talk with Tony. Even though his stuff looks simple there has been a lot of high end testing done at Milford on the mods and he can give you all of the specs. Some of it is more than I need because I am just looking for street car performance and ride.


    Andy, have been hearing a lot of good things about Viking. I wish that I had know about these before we got our VariShocks for the GN. I must say that the Varishocks and matching springs give the GN outstanding street ride and performance. But they are not adjustable and cost as much as the Vikings.
     
  14. gsla72

    gsla72 Well-Known Member

    As to the Vikings, i recently used their front coil overs (heavy rate springs) and matching adjustable rear shocks on my car - Night and day difference.

    The adjustable shocks keep the ride comfortable on the street, but allow things to be dialed in firmer with minimal effort. My car is actually more comfortable now than it was with KYB's and a stock setup.
     
  15. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    As some folks have probably noticed, all we do are double adjustable shocks. Part of the reasoning behind this is that by focusing on producing a double adjustable shock, we are essentially able to get our price point down to, or below, our competitors single or even non adjustable shocks.

    I am glad to hear they are working well for you!

    Yes, that is the beauty of adjustable shocks. You can cruise around town with a comfortable ride, yet have the ability to tune the suspension for drag racing, running an autocross, or anything in between.
     
  16. Bygblok

    Bygblok Well-Known Member

    Andy, in your experience, what's the best/most reasonable source for the coil-over conversion kits? Matts classic bowties seems to get pretty good prices but I haven't looked real hard either. On my 66 special would a 450 front spring be too heavy for a daily driver?
     
  17. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    We have a number of fantastic dealers and vendors. We also do sell direct. Your best bet would be to Google search a given part number, as some dealers might be running different promotional pricing or even perks such as free shipping.

    For a small block (or LS powered) A-Body of that vintage, we typically recommend a 450lbs front spring rate. This will give good overall ride quality, with a modest emphasis on handling. You can also go softer for a typical street/strip setup, or stiffer for an autocross/roadrace setup. But overall, a 450lbs rate will work very well, and is very common.
     
  18. alvareracing

    alvareracing Platinum Level Contributor

    Andy, question for you.... you know our BBB motors just weight about 60 lbs more than a SBC. Here I have aluminum heads and intake, with a lighter front end ie:(no inner fenders, fiberglass front bumper, homemade core support, lighter hood etc) I know I will be lighter than any SBC in a A-body. Hopefully I can have it re-weighed using individual scales on each wheel again. So, the question is when purchasing a spring for the coil overs should I be looking for a small block or big block spring?
    ps: Vicking coil overs are a serious consideration over the others!
    thank you in advance for your response.

    Fernando
     
  19. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    Hi Fernando,

    Is this for a pro-touring or drag race setup? My advice will vary greatly depending upon your intended use for the vehicle. In either case, scaling the car would be very helpful. Feel free to shoot me a PM and I'd be more than happy to discuss your setup more in depth.
     
  20. CameoInvicta

    CameoInvicta Well-Known Member

    Sorry Fernando! I just deleted some PM's, so I have room in my inbox now!
     

Share This Page