You will just have to pioneer the way as no combo will be identical when using custom rods and pistons etc. My thought would be to find some lightly used nascar take out rods and then have custom pistons made to get the compression distance, compression ratio etc correct. I would get with Bob at Finishline and have him work with his piston manufacturer as they are really accommodating. I am sure they would do a SBC piston pin diameter if want. They say no extra cost for custom pistons so take advantage of that to use a rod you can get for low cost and work around that... If you are staying NA then sure go with as many cubes as you can get without removing too much from the block. Not all blocks can go 90 over. Keep in mind that people can toss numbers around all they howver in the end the engine needs to be mocked up to find out if the rods and crank all clear with the camshaft so do that BEFORE you have the assembly ballanced... I have the part number for the SFI ATI internal balancer if you need it and I got that from Summit as TA did not have it in thier catalog. TA did have the SFI flexplate though... Not much point in doing a power adder or high HP NA build without the SFI rated stuff and internal balance... Getting kicked off the track for not having SFI stuff would suck.
I will not only "toss numbers around",I"ll build this beast,if someone wants one and wants to finance it.:Brow: What do you say Sean(or anyone else that wants one),it would be a GREAT addition to your book. I could get pictures throughout the whole build for you too. And should have everything ready to assemble in 1 1/2 to 3 months,depending on the machine shop I use has time or not.(I'm still waiting for a sbc 400 block,and a bbf 460 block to get done) Derek EDIT: I even have a 77 sbb 350 virgin block I can donate for this,just need to send a crank to do the short block,heads will be up to whoever wants this.
I mostly have been thinking 3.8 turbo pistons , wiesco off the shelf coated.specs seem like they will work well and with a later taller deck block might make the best set up for me .with turbo v6 pistons I could be around 8.7 compression with .035 down hole. I think with 6 psi we will make nice power and torque should go up more because of the higher comp .I have a ta 310 cam for mock up and a deeper base circle comp cam to try also.so now its get a block and see what we make.I'm sure Bob knows more about how much clearance is left at .100 so we can see how much more is there.
.090 over is pretty much max. GSjohnny clipping warning on .090 bore; stock head gasket at edge of cylinder. suprised we haven't blown a head gasket with the s/charger ---------- Post added at 12:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 PM ---------- how many months for the financing plan :-D
If you're serious,shoot me a PM and we can work something out,I'm sure we can go as fast or as slow as the money comes in to schedule to pay for machining as its done. As for parts needed,when you have the $$ to buy those,you can send them to me as you purchase them. As for my larbor charges,those will be minimal,just to pay for electricity, and or fuel for my heater if I have to work out in the cold this winter(LOL),and for fuel to drive to the machine shop. Other than that, I will donate my spare time and efforts for the sbb cause. IF(big if) this block can go to .090" over,a custom MLS head gasket would probably be the best bet? At .060" over the cid would be 379.14 with a 4.050" stroke,and .075 over would be 382 cid,and 3.880" bore would be a 383.08. Still unsure what the undersize rod bearing sizes are available,so we might not be able to go to a 4.050" stroke? But I am pretty sure that we can get a small base circle cam ground for this stroker,which would help if needed,if some one had a non-small base circle cam that we could borrow(or if you have one lying around) for checking purposes that would help the cause also. If you're unsure of my abilities to do this,the 434 sbc(with a factory block,4.155" bore with a 4.00" stroke) I'm in the process of building for a friend(waiting for machine work to get done on the block right now),I can post that on The "Other" Bench to showcase some of the challenges to building a stroker. Granted a sbc won't have the same challenges as a sbb,but with a 4.00" stroke they will be very similar,such as cam clearance,and possibly block clearance similarities.(hopefully not block clearance,because of the oil passage of the sbb right there along the pan rail.:TU: Derek
Just do a sonic test and see if it can go .090. If not, just bore it to wherever it can go. You're taking a gamble I'd say if you go too thin on the walls with higher stress builds. Why not just go .060 and use v6 pistons?
If this happens,sonic testing will be done,and will be a block fill engine build,with custom pistons. ---------- Post added at 10:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ---------- Heads and intake will also be maxed out if this build happens. THREE HUNDRED and EIGHT THREE sbb cubic inches,with "where all the power is" added on top will be that much more powerful with an extra 33 cubes or maybe more?.:eek2:
Just going to be an R&D build I know a 373 build would be cake, as all That requires is combining your 363 build and increasing stroke to 3.95 A build using 1.85 bearings is new territory per say..same basics just attempting to max things a tad further then they can be
Is block still available? I thInk someone mentioned rods that take 1.888 bearings also can use 1.850 bearings too? Would have to heat treat or nitrate crank for strength.but I'm willing to see how far it can be pushed.I have a crank,rods and heads
Thanks Paul,you rock. Paul do you know what is the max under size for the 1.850" bearings? We're trying to get more stroke by using an under size bearing,can you find out what kind of under size bearings are available in the above housing size,and the 1.976" housing size? That would really help things get rolling if you can. Thanks. Derek
That could give an extra .030 of stroke.so maybe .130 or .140 . Maybe even push .150 . Then we have to measure clearances and hope crank is strong enough. I have a small base circle cam from comp cams grind isn't correct for project but we can still measure from it.
Nothingface5384 has PMed me his interest in doing this first,if he can't for some reason I will let you know.o No: I have already got some pricing for machining,that will all go in a new thread for this build.:Brow: And that was me that mentioned that about the rod bearings.:TU: Derek
The Clevite SP1326VX is also the equivalent of the Clevite CB-1664H I would have to call Roush Yates performance products to see how far under they can go. Paul
With the bearing number Paul listed are for the 1.850" rod journal which is the standard size,which would be an extra .150" of stroke,we're trying to find what is the under size bearing available from that standard size. So we are trying to push it further than +.150,to maybe as much as .200" more stroke. ---------- Post added at 01:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 AM ---------- If you would that would be great,if you rember and have the time to call them,it would be apreciated.(no pressure,the block isn't even machined yet) Thanks again Paul Derek
The Mahle catalog shows only STD or .001" undersize for the CB-1664H bearing. See page 38. http://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/C125790900540AC0/vwContentByUNID/BAE05A140D0A0082C1257C0C0040D639/$FILE/EB-40-14.pdf On page 39 note the bearing for a 1.771" crank journal. (1.890" rod bore) I believe that is the minimum allowed by NASCAR. If you continue to offset grind the crank, at some point you will run into the oil passage in the crank rod jounal. Paul
Great stuff Paul,thats unfortunate,and I don't think we want to get into custom rods,and I don't think I want to try to make bearing spacers for the rods either(but we might be able to use the 1.888" bearings as spacers for the 1.771" bearings? Or,bore and hone the 1.850" bearings to use for spacers?). Probably unless we go with custom bearings,we'll have to stick with a 4.00" stroke. Unless we find rods long enough with the 1.890" housing bore? Have never seen them on ebay,wouldn't want to buy them new either.LOL Yes,I know about the oil passages,but I think we would still be good up to + .200" more stroke,of coarse that would be checked before any grinding would be done to know for sure. Derek
I have a 310 cam to check clearances and if the oil passage is a clearance issue we can use the external oil system finishline has for 455.
I know king crankshaft would be willing as he was for my billetcrank i have planned for the TTbuild.but i'm sure custom billet rods would be in the 1k area. Next step up in length is the 6.800 rods but nothing will work for what we're trying to do. plus theyre all like 800+grams I'll fancy the undersize rods depending if its reasonable Derek[/QUOTE]
