TSP Level 2A-R (Larry's motor) Complete and Dyno tested.

larry get the motor in and lets see it go fast at cecil :3gears:

 

Larry --can you plug your new engine and car numbers into a desk top program and calculate the projected top end quarter mile speed?

 

Nope --I will leave that to you.

 

I would think it should run 11.3 at 120

 

You are down in Moon and Bruno territory.

 

Hydraulic roller cams in BBB's aren't really new - they were in use over a decade ago. TA now markets them, so I guess they will become more common. I'm kinda surprised that we haven't heard about more builds using hyraulic roller cams now that TA is selling them. It seems like there was alot of interest here on the board, but are there more being used now?

Jim - why did you chose a new "Ron" for a machinist? I thought you had a good group of shops that you brought stuff to, depending on what you needed done? Don't get me wrong, I REALLY enjoy reading Ron's (MNGS455) input on the actual machine shop stuff and it's really good to have a BUICK guy and machinist right here! :TU:

 

Bob, I know the car! That was Bob Lindquists silver 70 that was stock appearing. I ran 11.22 with it at IRP during the Horsepower Nationals with it. It was hot, somewhere in the mid to low 90's! Too bad Bob sold it, I'm certain it would have gone in the 10's.

 

Yep, that's one of them! Remember too, that one had iron heads, iron manifolds and 3.42"s..

Larry, as you know, the hydraulic rollers and solid rollers are 2 different animals. None of the hydraulic rollers that I'm aware of use crazy spring pressures. Lots of carnage with the big solid rollers, but there are other things you can do with solid rollers besides epoxy or lifter bore girdles to try to make the block live. I have a 71 block in my white car, but it took some tricky and expensive machining to keep the lifter bores in place, and there's been a solid roller in it for a long time. No, it's not a bracket car, but the block has been through many passes over the years. Good luck with your new engine! Are you going to fall Musclepalooza at LV?

 

No idea on the cost. Nothing seems cheap when you use Buick and HP in the same sentence LOL!

 

Bob,

Reason for change in machinists was proximity.. he's only a 40 mile round trip.. my guys in the TC area are several times that. My shop is 66mi north of the Twin City area now.

I beleive it was a change for the better.. he's quicker getting things done, and his work is excellent. A Win-win. Not so much of a production shop, he only does work for builders like me. Great attention to detail.

As far as hyd rollers go, we now have Buick Hyd roller specific off the shelf parts to work with, before to get one done, you had to use the 8620 Crane round lobe core, with custom lifters.. and be careful not to have too much lift, or we get into all the oiling fun. Bring a couple G if you want a hyd roller back then.. the crane core is the cost of finished cam now. And don't forget that a bronze gear is required on the distrib when using that steel core.. and they don't live long on the street typically. So it was not really practical. No way are you going to use one in either of the motors I finished this week. Neither of those customers would be fooling around with that, they drive the cars too much.

So while anything is possible, a hyd roller without the TA 1050A core or the morel lifters is not practical. Not 10 years ago, and not today.

Word is that TA is on the second run of 50 cam cores, so they are out there. I personally have built 3, with 4 more in the works.

---------- Post added 07-27-2012 at 01:21 AM ---------- Previous post was 07-26-2012 at 11:37 PM ----------

And what's a buildup without some pictures, dyno sheets, and a video.


Yup, still looks like a 470..



With a nice hat on it..



In a beefy block..



Ready for some pulls




Gotta have a vid... Note the IDLE QUALITY.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/enlshBNORSQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Here's the dyno sheet from that pull..



JW

 

What are the lift/duration/limitations of the budget roller cam?

I seem to recall the roller cam, blank machining etc to be approximately $1200 and the roller lifters were $390. These are 2004-2005 prices. This was built one for another buddy but used similar parts to what was in Bob Lindquists car. His car had a smooth idled and performed great, especially at the time of his build. To be clear I had nothing to do with his build. Here's a few pics of it. I think Duane was driving this time.

 

Your right Larry, and I believe the seat of the pants difference will be noticeable, in the 2500-3500 rpm range that you do a lot of driving in.

Here is the two motors in graph form.. the red lines are the first version, with the 413 roller cam.



We can look closer at the torque curves, with a finer scale..



And this one is interesting... These are the raw numbers.. All dyno figures you see are corrected, as this is the only way to compare even the same motor on the same machine, but in different atmospheric conditions.

This is just that.. the red test is the old version, dynoed in January, with a decent Baro, 70* inlet air temps and low humidity.

The black line was the testing we did two days ago.. Mid July, inlet air temp was 82*, baro was horrible (28.62) and it was humid

Density altitude, familiar to us drag racers, was 1903 ft for the first motor, and 3591 ft for the second.

You can see what a tremedous difference it makes. And 1900 ft density altitude is decent to good around here, in the fall, but a horible day at Cecil. I have heard of below sea level numbers out there.

There's a 50+ HP difference with just the weather.