What is Considered Real? Do GS, Stage 1 or GSX Require Matching Numbers Anymore?

Question for the group, may produce differing answers depending on motives.

Simply put, where do we draw the line when someone claims they have (for example) a 1970 Stage 1 car, when the only thing original is the GS VIN? Or even disregard the VIN and it could have started as a Skylark or GS350.

By the stamps (numbers), the block is from a '74 Oldsmobile and everything else is high performance aftermarket products producing 400HP. The suspension is tubular, disc's on all fours, custom driveshaft w/safety bars, 9" rear end, aluminum radiator, headers w/3" stainless exhaust, AN fittings/gold anodized everything, on and on; easily $50K of over-built superfluous paraphernalia.

The majority of these with aftermarket spoilers/air dam/stripe kits that were usually GSX gear (options) and only rarely added to a GS or Stage 1 car from the factory.

Now the car is for sale at $75K, $100K, $125K+, etc. They demand the price claiming Stage 1 status (because of the performance/upgrades) and the emblems on the car.

Even after being informed, the dealer, auction house, seller obviously couldn't care less.

I realize the market dictates the price, whatever current idiots will pay (just like housing bubbles) sets the price.

But, when do Buick owner groups (maybe the BCA) make some rules regarding this?

Or has it already been done and nothing has happened?

 

Many old threads about this on here... I'm too tired to re-hash it all exc. to say there were only 2 parts you couldn't buy at the parts counter.

 

Yes, I have tried researching before I wrote the post, but just didn't find anything.

Which 2 parts can't be purchased?

 

The simple answer to this is the car is whatever it was born as.

Restored/unrestored, numbers matching/ non-numbers matching, Survivor/basket case, those are simply adjectives that describe the current condition of the vehicle, and not what it is.
Duane

 

How it was born is what defines it…….Once a Skylark , always a Skylark.

 

Thank you. If it didn't start as a Stage 1, it can never be a Stage 1.

See, now that makes sense.

But, what if you have a 1970 Stage 1 and replaced the entire drivetrain. How could the owner prove his claim (aside from keeping all the original parts, which rarely happens)? When you gut your Stage 1 (and remove all evidence that it was a Stage 1), do you give up all Stage 1 rights?

Shame is NOBODY abides by that - even Mecum and the other big guys.

 

No one sets this standard.

It's up to the individual owner/buyer.

Car people like the folks here understand clearly what Duane explained above.

Auctions can say whatever they want. That changes nothing.

 

Nobody gets upset about the artificially inflamed prices for junk?

 

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Also, it's not necessarily junk. A Skylark with a ton of love and attention can be made into a fantastic performing and great looking car. It's won't be a GS, but that doesn't mean it's not worth anything.

 

Yeah, junk was the wrong word, apologies...

 

As long as there is full disclosure on what is going on let the buyer make the decision. It's their money. The key is "full disclosure".

 

See, that is the thing. The buyer only knows what they read in a seller's description. There is no "full disclosure". I've been banned from auction sites for trying to get full disclosure. Was told I was "disruptive" to the selling process...

 

I bought a GS that had a Lesabre 350 in it. I was going to pull that out and put in a 455, but I found the original build sheet that indicated it was a GS-350. So I put a 350 back in, but that was just so everything would match the build sheet. May not be a screamer like the 455, but I figure someone someday might appreciate that it is all correct. Only thing that doesn't match the build sheet now is the red paint (it was originally bittersweet mist... not a fan of that color).

 

Up until I put the Supercharged motor in my car(70 Skylark). I have the complete drivetrain from a destroyed 71 GS455 car (possibly Stage 1) from disc brakes,to rear,transmission and matching motor. I really don't care 1 bit if a car has it's original drivetrain or not in it. If perhaps the car was an X, yes that matters.I personally have 5 VIN plates and cowl tags with titles in my gun safe,but they will never see another body again..I also have some matching engine and drivetrain pieces for some of the tags..As long as you enjoy your car and are not anal as some,that's all that matters.. I wont be upset if I have a wrong headed bolt,wrong radiator hose or alternator belt. But,some people are..

 

Ultimately it is up to the buyer to do the homework. No way should auction-houses ever be considered the arbitrator of truth. At best, they are just the conduit to put a buyer and seller together.

 

How did you get the other numbers to match, like the production number and such? I see what you are saying, but

I understand, but I was more referring to dollar value rather than emotional value...

Someone intentionally using a $35K '71 GS350 (using the VIN because that year didn't differentiate GS350, GS455 or Stage1), swapping an Olds 455, adding badges/effects and trying to sell as a Stage 1 for $75K. Or they use a '70 GS455 and do the same thing.

I see it everyday...

 

I like brunets but if she looks good as a blonde, I could care less if the carpet matches the drapes Kinda the same situation as cars, both can be very costly

 

[QUOTE=".I personally have 5 VIN plates and cowl tags with titles in my gun safe,but they will never see another body again..I also have some matching engine and drivetrain pieces for some of the tags..As long as you enjoy your car and are not anal as some,that's all that matters.. I wont be upset if I have a wrong headed bolt,wrong radiator hose or alternator belt. But,some people are..[/QUOTE]

just curious, why do you have cowl tags and titles in a safe if they are junk and will never be used? not flaming at all just curious.
charlie,,