Mark, As you said " I would like to see a ruling either way" I don't even care anymore- For the last 6 months that's all I have been saying. Don't care what the ruling is- Just pick one and stick with it. and enfore the rules we already have.o No: And I'm definately not in the everything does nothing crowd. I havn't got a Pontiac yet!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: And - I do just want to show up and have fun, I just like FAST cars in Fast -Pure stocks in pure stock.
[And I'm definately not in the everything does nothing crowd. I havn't got a Pontiac yet!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: And - I do just want to show up and have fun, I just like FAST cars in Fast -Pure stocks in pure stock.[/QUOTE] Does this mean I can run a RA V in my car. I mean it does nothing!
Does this mean I can run a RA V in my car. I mean it does nothing![/QUOTE] No, but you can run an LS7 motor though :beers2: Too bad it never made it and the same for the RA 5. We could make a Pure Stock Experimental Class, cars that they were going to make untill gas and insurance issues prevailed. Jody
Tim my questions were open questions and not directed in any individual direction and certianly I appreciate your imput as you are the only one offering it. And as you are the only one offering it I do not want people to think the focus should be on you directly as it is wholly unfair and defeats the purpose of the debate that you have been kind enough to participate in. As you said earlier "no flaming arrows". Plus I can think of at least nine cars off the top of my head that run Richmonds. And everyone I can think of is towards the front of the pack. Not just run them but as you stated allowed to do that very thing. I do think from your earlier post that AMC's should not be immune either. if you have a '69 Scrambler it should have a 2.23 like they came with, same for Go Pack '70 AMX's like Tim and I own. If you have a little SC/360 you should have a 2.43 first not a 2.64 or 2.88 etc. My last question would be concerning Richmond's is that they make a fairly close matching trans ratio wise to an M21/22 but as far as I know no one has chosen it. If a Richmond like in Tim's case is a solid option to replace a scattered Muncie and get a warranty on top of it then why does no one choose the option closes to the original trans? Plus that version offers Richmonds highest torque rating of a measly 325 lbs max. If there is no performance gain between the two brands then the gear ratio changes must be strictly for the performance gains. If we allow Richmonds as a fair and suitable exchange then I would lobby that the M21/22 crowd must use the Richmond with the 2.23 first gear, 1.61 second, 1.23 third and 1.00 fourth. That is close to the 2.20/1.64/1.28/1.00 Muncies. This would seem to be a fair ruling for all going forward. I would have zero complaints with a rule like that. Any thoughts? Mark
Mark We can't even keep people honest and folllowing the rules as it is. Let alone to have Dan and Bob checking everyones trans ratio's. I don't see it happing. Look at the top 10 or 20 cars - how many are manuals? ( or as Donny puts it MAN PEDALs -- ) I don't think man trans cars have any advantage over auto's in drag racing, actually it's the opposite. There is NO torque Multiplication in manual trans, you have the chance of missing a shift, Breaking,shifting lag time you don't get with auto's, Minimilize wheel spin on launch. ( or as Dan put's it the two footed "don 't squash the egg" ) And you can drink your 1/2 caff. double whip cappuccino with chocolate sprinkles going down the track because all the extra free time !!ou: :laugh: Butt don't care either way, they make a ruling and I'll go by it.:TU: Until then see you guys there got to wash my car.
Tim, true the "man pedal" boys seem to give up a quick two tenths to the similar slush box cars no matter how well you can launch and row a stick. Manuals are still more fun to race though.:3gears: Happy washing and see you there. Mark
You lost me right there! They still make a Muncie. Riverside Gear sells them brand new in Michigan for about $1,600. Why do the "Muncie" guys need a Richmond??? It's one thing to hear someone talk about what limited parts were available when an engine was rebuilt, it's completely another to ignore existing new stock on a part in favour of a non-original part. "Pure" Stock? Nope; "Laughing" Stock. What got me interested in this event in the first place was the spirit that guys wanted to race without modifications. It was a badge of honour to race well in factory stock trim. To my way of thinking, the faster you run the more stock you should aspire to be. We need to be less like NASCAR (where the organizers have to police the sport), and more like golf (where players voluntarily recuse themselves from participating if they believe they've committed even the smallest of technical infractions). Out with rationalization of the rules; in with spirit of the rules. [... bet I'm starting to sound like a preacher now, huh?]
let the record show I run a muncie .......... with stock gear sets, not the fancy ones with .87:1 overdrive 4th gear. :Smarty:
That pretty much sums up the whole issue. :TU: Maybe the guys with non-stock mods don't like to think of themselves as FAST. After all, those FAST guys are the ones with massive internal mods and running 10s. So maybe what's needed is a new class between Pure Stock and FAST. I propose we call it .... wait for it ...... HALF-FAST. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: (say it three times fast)
RDL They didn't start making them till the last couple years ,AND THEY ARE REMANS. Read a little closer. The richmond is just a BORG WARNER superT10 that they put in the 74 Zs and TA's .they bought the rights, The 4 speed Richmond isn't a ground up new trans, ALL parts interchange with the GM early ones, The Super Muncie has been around for years and is DEFinatly an improved trans, Beefier case,rollerized gears ,custom gear ratio. The mass of replacement parts have only showed up in the last couple years (PEOPLE want it CHINA will make it! ) Like I said DON't care either way, the only reason I've got one is I exploded my trans before KILKARE so I didn't get to race. Bob and Dan told me to pick one up at Summit. Kinda like roller tips -don't care either way justy pick one.
Oops, thanks Tim; I missed that. Regardless, I still think my point is valid: there's no need to permit use of another manufacturer's transmission if a remanufactured Muncie (with mostly new internals) is readily available.
Me too Donny, a Nova Muncie ( shorter tail piece) M21 plus a Nova 12 bolt holding up the rear end! Just like Mother Chevrolet intended.:beer Thomas
I've tried both an M21 (2.20 1st gear) and a Super T10 in my Ramrod. Didn't like either one of them as much as the original M20 Muncie.M21 was horrible off the line, had to launch harder and closer to the edge of hard spin (except at Norwalk)...and the ST10 shifted much nicer, but went to sleep between 1st and 2nd. No idea what the first gear ratio is, but the ratio change from 1st to 2nd was much wider than the others. Also the ST10 shifter position required me to hold it in 4th gear or it would jump out. The console boot was pushing hard on the shifter, and didn't want to chop up the original console to make it fit. As soon as I get some money (stimulus package?), going to have the original M20 rebuilt (again) and put it back in. Right now still has that ST10 in it and parked. Going to go back to the Olds 3.91 12 bolt it came with also.
Dave, last year I used an M20 in the Chevy II and this year I'm going to try a M21. That should make it easier to power shift 3-4 which I couldn't do with an M20. I feel the Muncie box is stronger than a Super T10 also. I think the light weight of the car will make launching it with a 2.20 1st OK, but don't really know yet. I've only had the car on the track once this year so and only got in 6 passes, 3 of which showed syncro problems :error: that required me to tear the trans down and fix it. Hope to finish the car up today and I guess break it in at Martin and start my T&T development work there. o No: This spring did not go exactly as I had envisioned it regarding car development and practice. It is going to make Martin much more exciting for me as I have NO idea how the car is going to run.............. none, zero, zip, nada!! Thomas
I had liberty gears build me an M21 with the steel midplate and a main shaft bushing in the case for $1300 out the door with no exchange, they say it is stronger than the richmond unit. So there is no problem getting a good muncie trans. In so going to the m21 over my old M20, you will see my white pig loose 2 tenths and 2 1/2 mph in the quarter!!! Any body want a real nice transmission?
guys,just wondering .how did some of the top runners check out during inspection :compression ratio, spring pressure allowed etc. I agree with Pete;the way to prove to some people that these cars run the times they do is to let Dan and Pete checks the car out. factory stock class/ 396/375 hp nova , coming together by the end of the year.chris Teed
Who were the #9 and #10 qualifiers in Factory Stock?Or the quickest 2/3 shootout pairing? What was the E.T. cut-off at #8 qualifing position? Have the race results been posted anywhere yet?
