Mark, I understand your concerns, and Tim's comments are spot-on. Mark, what kind of car are you building ? Why not bring it out and see how it performs, and if it runs under 11:49, then make a decision what to do. I kind of disagree with the liability issue, though. Nobody is telling someone that they have to go down the track in and 11 or 16 second car without a roll bar. The driver should bear the responsibility of doing so and the resulting damage or injury if they choose to take the chance. I know that lawyers and society always looks for someone to blame when something goes wrong, and the idea of personal responsibility no longer exists these days. I agree with Dave Dudek, slow the cars down by eliminating the allowable modifications from stock, and it should slow the cars down enough to keep the track management happy.
Is it just me or is there anyone else out there in P/S land wondering why these people spend so much money $$$$$$ and build these cars which are so far beyond the spirit of the race. AND AGAIN TO WIN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Why in the world do you certain racers think you need to go faster than a 11.50. This is not a FAST race and you all know that. It looks like the organizers of the race have already let you certain few push the envelope and probably end the event as we know it because of this last blow out on this site. And whats up with all this language about liabilitys and suing someone over this. Are you guys for real ???? I wouldnt blame the organizers one bit if they decided to pull the plug on the race after 2012. Thanks for ruining one of the best muscle car events on the planet.
Because they are racers. They have a competitive nature. Only about 20 people in the world make money by racing, everybody else spends money to race. Mark, sorry for you woes, but the rules of this event have been vauge, ever changing, and selectivley enforced since forever. Nothing has really changed. Based on past history, some will probably stay away, and others will show up and run sub 11.49 and will not be DQ'ed.
MrGSX70, it is up to each person to decide what they choose to invest in this hobby and if some choose to spend more than others so be it. Everyone knows that we are racing for less than a plastic trophy. I am not really sure who you are but I have been doing this for 20 years and if you want to count the time period before we had a race I have been doing it for 29 years in a PS car at my local track. It actually will cost less for me to do a clone than it ever did to race any real cars. RA IV parts far exceed any expense for even the most exotic Chevy parts. Heck the high 13 second AMX I raced last fall has a cost ratio that would exceed any nice Chevy build like an LS6. This car will cost less than most any car we race. With that in mind it easy to understand why some choose a good combination over an odd one. I have done odd, SC/360, SC/Rambler, '72 401 4spd AMX, 343 Go Pack Javelin with Stinger Side pipes, '70 RA IV T/A 4spd, Challenger T/A, Boss 302... They all cost as much or far more to build than what we wanted to race. I have done slow and expensive and now I wanted to try and do quick and with less expensive and rare parts. If it meets all the rules to a tightly fitted T than why would someone (you) have issue with that no matter the cost? You apparently choose Buick's and I applaud that choice and am darn glad to see them at the race. Others choose other brands and they need not be assualted for their favored brand, model or expense of build. As GTX Joel stated, it is not the combination picked by a racer it has been the "vague..ever changing...selectively enforced rules..." that is at issue. FAST was born of the enforcement of rules back in 2001 when Casey and I were the only two out of 8 cars pulled for heavy tech to pass. The others took their cars home and created the FAST series we all love and enjoy bringing our PS cars to. Plus people like myself, COPO, Jim Spenceman, Tim and several others have all done the certified car route when it was being done. We know very well how to play by the rules and go fast at the same time. Mark
Mr. GTX I understand that they are racers, but does that give them the right to just come into this type of P/S racing and spend crazy $$$$$ and do what ever they want. A racer needs to take on the responsibility of his own actions and decision making sometimes. And thats not happening here. From what I see the majority of the racers really try and stay within the spirit and rules of the race. Its only a select few that keep pushing the envelope. This type of specialty event is not your normal test-n-tune night or some sanction Stock Eliminator class in NHRA. They are trying to represent the cars as they were from when they roll off the assembly line. And I sure dont remember roll bars being an option when I bought my brand new 69 Road Runner.
Mark, It is S as in Sam, P as in Peter, E as in Edward, T as in Tom, Z as in Zebra, M, A, N, Spetzman:Smarty::laugh::laugh::laugh:
I'm not part of the in crowd here, but I must say this psmcdr has provided a huge amount of reading entertainment over the years. Better than watching a soap opera. All the while guys in F.A.S.T. have had cars looking stock and running faster times, AND actually enjoying themselves and each other, not fighting, just racing and having fellowship with one another. Imagine that. o No: Edit: Not saying folks have not enjoyed themselves in psmcdr but if these threads were any indication....Just saying.
In the beginning... this event was supposed to be about racing these cars the way they came from the factory. Rule changes used to mean relaxing the strict requirements. Now the rule changes are tightening the requirements. The pendulum is moving the other way. Regardless, if you build your car to factory spec's... none of the rule changes either way will affect you! If you stray... you pay. I like everyone here, but I feel sorry for no one.
I have supported this race for over a decade, and will continue to do so as long as Dan and Bob have the event. I have brought both 110% bone stock cars, as well as cars that I semi-purpose built. I didn't go Max effort becuase I still wanted them streetable(I ran 3.55 gears instead of 4.10,4.33,4.56,etc.) I have sat out due to the economy lately. We have my wifes 72 Stage 1 that is 100% stock other than a nice exhaust system. The thing that pisses me off, is that we are made to feel like something is wrong with our sub-par running car. The wifes car runs extremely strong for a heavy low compression car, I think we got it into the 13.60's last year, yet it was the slowest Buick in attendance, and you know what....as usual, we had a blast at the event. Tune to the best of your ability,and have fun. Change the rules all you want, it doesn't affect those of us with PURE STOCK DRAG CARS. A very sincere thank you to Dan and Bob for this event.
Things are not perfect in the FAST camp .Lots of bickering and people not racing anymore becuase of it and various reasons.Its as bad or worse than the Pure Stocks.I had my fill and went back to the Pure Stock only ranks like some others.I dont want to see the Pure Stock race get spoiled by the same attitudes and power struggles
No doubt everyone goes into it with no preconceived notions at the beginning and just to be a part of it all and have fun thrashing the cars. I would venture to say that in either group that's the majority of the people's attitudes, is just to have fun. Probably a few bad apples infect things. Not that I would have any clue (not do I even want to know) who bad apples would be. I'd like to see both races stick around for a long time to come but the bickering and fingerpointing can't continue if it's to continue. Or maybe it can what do I know, it would just be nice if everyone got along.
First of all I want to thank Dan and Bob for the great event they put on and request (along with the other 130 non complaining racers) that they continue to do so. Second, Dan and Bob are friends to virtually every racer that's been racing for any amount of time. I can't imagine how I would feel or what I would do if one of my racing "friends" gets caught being illegal and then begs me to let him race "because it really isn't illegal and I interpret the rule differently from you" (translated: rule interpreted to the "friends" advantage,) and Dan agrees (not because the other guy is right, but because he's sick of the arguing) only to have one of his another "racing friends" foaming at the mouth 2 hours later about why did you let him get away with that. It's Dan and Bob's "friend" racers that are to blame, and why I take offense when people refer to the "vague rules and lack of enforcement". Dan and Bob must feel like they're at Chucky Cheese with the mallet trying to beat down the" illegal "gophers everytime they repeatedly pop their collective heads up. SPIRIT OF THE RULES---get it? Now let's get to the real issue from a legal standpoint and we can see it's really quite simple. Two scenarios: 1) 13.9 car goes into wall on 5th run, driver hurt (heaven forbid). Driver has signed waivers of track liability,track and car complies with NHRA rules, etc. equals very, very little chance of law suit being filed and probably less of sucess. 2) 11.36 car goes into wall on 5th sub 11.50 run. Guess what? Big chance of lawsuit and sucess because track negligent in not kicking 11.36 car off after first run per NHRA sanctioned rules. PSMCDR event subject to same for not DQing car. Everyone of those complaining knew that no cages would be allowed and knew sub 11.50 requires them. Is this Dan and Bob's fault? I understand the desire/need to go faster but unfortunately for this race, it appears those desiring to do so have hit the wall.
What other cars besides JJ and Julie's L88's have gone under 11.50 at the psmcdr events? If I had a car that would run 11.50, I would try and be the first one to get DQ'd and then certify the car!! now you have something.
I know Larry Weymouth went below that in his L88 and Mahoney in the Firebird on the East Coast. Not sure who else. Jody
Because, 1/8 mi. SUCKS. I wouldn't attend a race across the street from my house to run 1/8 mi. or, a race with a 1 vs. 8 Ladder, but that's a whole different topic.
just my 2 cents: On my first time to the PSMDR in 2010 I was amazed that this rule was not in effect. As a past National event racer (NHRA, IHRA, AHRA) and national record holder, I was shocked to see cars running sub-par 11:50 s and not having the proper safety equipment. I thought "how in the hell did they get around this"???. If you ever crashed a drag car you would understand my wonderment, as I did in 1975 in my E/S 68' ram rod (W-31) and I might add very rare former Smother Bros. Drag Team Car @ 114 MPH running 11:98 in the lights. Due to my safety equipment I only cut my RH little finger, although I was knocked silly. Well with that said, can you imagine my first past down the drag strip @ the 2010 Hemmings Musclepaloza in a very rare Olds that I spent $105,000 and 15 years restoring and have not been on a drag strip in 19 years???? God my left foot would not stop vibrating and shaking while holding the clutch to the floor! LOL LOL lol Thanks Bob and Dan for all the crap you put up with. Cannot be there this year, but will be there in 2013, IF you guys are still doing this! PS: a little advise from an OLD racer, just short shift (lower RPMs ) to slow the car down, That is what we did so not to run under the record! Besides it will be a lot easier on that $20,000 dollar engine, $2,500 trans, and $1,500 rear! lol
i dont currently have a legal car for the class, but would have no problems with the rules. your never gonna make everyone happy. stick to your guns. things have gotten out of control in many classes and money usually does it. now someone on a limited budget can come and have fun. the guy with a ten year old truck with an open trailer that cant afford the top of the line stuff. stick to your guns, it may take a year or two but i believe you are doing the right thing. phil
I think the issue here is not the safety regs, it's that the rules seem to change at random. It's hard to predict what somebody would try just to gain some advantage, and when they do, a new rule is born. Maybe, the rules should read stock means stock or an absolutely perfect reproduction. Anything else gets you a ticket home. Period, end of discussion. There should be allowances, or even requiremets for safety equipment. The tracks and sanctioing bodies know what works, why not follow them? Preferably BEFORE someone goes home in a cast or body bag.
