Sigh... So the Electra was out today. I changed the fuel line out (it was the original rubber line with an inline filter that the AFB set up had) and replaced it with a steel line, 5/16 diameter. The car now idles well and makes power coming off idle into the primaries. At part throttle it is pretty good. Then I push it a little further and its as if someone threw a switch. The motor dies and the car starts to slow down. I back off, it stumbles but comes back. Then on part throttle, it runs like nothing ever happened. In the driveway, throttle response is quick, it'll rev out, not sure if the secondaries are fully coming on, the butterflies on the bottom are opening though. Obviously can't rev it up too long or it'll blow up. Doesn't sound like it though; I don't get that low throaty whoop when it opens up. The carb is a relatively new total rebuild; it has only about 1000 miles on it; it was rebushed and apparently a modernized needle and seat was installed to replace the funny set up that was originally in there. I haven't opened it up yet to actually verify this. The rebuilder was fairly reputable until he vanished from the face of the earth a few years ago. He might be a board member. The electric choke works and comes off. For this test it was manually backed off and locked. The brass filter thingy is in good shape and clean. Tried to install a paper filter, but it wouldn't fit. Blew out the brass thingy and put it back in. Fuel line was replaced, the rubber one with the inline filter has been removed and replaced with a steel 5/16 tubing line. Fuel pump is still a cheap Chinese knock-off from CARS...damn thing leaks at the seam after 10 minutes of sitting but doesn't leak when running. No idea what the pressure is. Tank and lines are still the originals and in good shape. No kinks or anything funny. The tank is as clean as can be expected for a car that gets driven regularly all summer. Opened up the inline filer and it was pretty clean after being in the car for 5 years. My first impression is that it starves and the float bottoms out when I lay into it; it first started doing this shutdown thing at 90 mph and then the speed that it'll do it at has been decreasing ever since. Has anyone ever seen this where there is no way to get enough gas into the carb to keep it going? Is it a combination of fuel pump and the float settings? The inline filter was a source of concern; on the initial fuel pump after an episode of WOT the compression fitting on inlet side of the pump would always pop apart; too much back pressure? Now I checked the current (replaced from above, not even 6 months old) pump after I replaced the line, it didn't leak like it used to when the filter was there. Yet, when I blew through the filter it didn't seem too bad, and as I said, I opened it up and it was pretty clean. Any suggestions? I don't really want to put the AFB back on; this miserable carb cost me $500 to get refurbished and it worked great for the first season. It is a stock Rochester Q-jet and manifold out of a 1966 425 Wildcat. The manifold was dipped, cleaned, and a new plug installed too. It has that idiotic built-in tin-cased secondary pull-off diaphragm which I'm not sure even works anymore, could this be an issue? I'm about ready to toss this whole works into the garbage; I've never had so much grief with a Q-jet and used to think I was pretty adept at rebuilding and tuning them, or so I thought until this animal proved me to be an idiot. If I have to, I'll pull it apart, if that's the way the consensus is leading. Kinda scared to see what I find in there... Any advice would be appreciated...
The fuel pump in my Riviera did that. It has such low pressure that the car would literally run out of fuel at 70. If I slowed down, the fuel pump "caught up" and the car ran well. So don't rule out the pump May be a dumb question, but is it a possibility that the secondary air flaps are too loose causing the car to fall on its face when you stab the gas?
It is possible that the plastic cam that lifts the secondary metering rods is broken, if the spring tension is correct. You will get the secondary throttle plates and air valves opening as usual, but if the metering rods don't come out of the jets, it's gonna fall on its face.
You are running a 66 Quadrajet? As you probably know, they were unique in design and had many flaws. But sounds like you aren't getting fuel to the carb to keep it full, and possibly do have too low of float setting to keep it running.
I've had this happen on two cars in two years: My Dart would fall on its face at 70 mph. The fuel filter was totally clogged, but somehow it was still getting 5-6 psi at the carb. It just had no volume. I had run the car out of gas a few months before and it must have sucked up some trash. A new filter and it was good. My new (to me) Firebird did the same thing, but the charcoal canister was plugged, so the tank wasn't venting properly. Of course, your car doesn't have one of those. The moral: If you're not getting enough volume, the car can do what you described. I think I'd be looking at that fuel pump first, and while it's off, I'd check any rubber hoses going back to the tank and blow through the lines to make sure they're clear.
Just rig up a temporary fuel pressure gauge and see what the fuel pressure is when it acts up. Not expensive to do. I'm thinking the fuel pump is not keeping up. If it is leaking at anytime, it's no good, simple as that.
OK; - so I'll toss the pump. That's another $30 that I'll never get back from CARS. Second pump, different type of failure, all attributable to the same thing; - shoddy workmanship. I have another fuel pump from Rock Auto that supposedly is the right one and looks like it should be close, it's at least made in South Korea. I'll have to rig up a nipple on the discharge though, or flare-nut the thing I have. At absolute worst I'll overhaul a 61 Carter pump that I have from an old Invicta. Oh yes, it was made very clear to me that the 66 Q-jet has a number of flaws. The cast on this one was supposedly in pretty good shape and the pull-off diaphragm was still working when it went in for overhaul. The carb came off of a 66 Wildcat that had been out standing in its field for 30 years, so it was pretty locked up and frozen, with no real corrosion on the alloy parts. I have a Carter-built 67 Q-jet somewhere around here which needs to be rebuilt, and once I find the kit that thing may wind up on the car. It's similar but already has some improvements and it should match the manifold profile.
Thanks for that; - they're available in the US but no longer in Canada, they were the first people I tried. I've found that NAPA has shed a lot of it's older stock up here. The number comes up "no longer available". The other thing is that there are few people who will even try nowadays. It's tough to find a good partsman anymore, most of them around here are people who are putting themselves through school and are not in it for the love of the industry. What we need here in Alberta is a company called Lordco. They're in BC, and they still have the parts, they're fast and courteous, and they'll hunt down the obscure stuff. I'm tempted to call the contact I made in Saanich on Vancouver Island last summer. He was at a Lordco and he knew what he was talking about and he liked old cars. Plus, I'd probably get what I need inside 48 hours. On second thought; thanks Telriv, I'm going to keep those numbers, see if I can get somewhere up here; I'll try Canadian Tire and Acklands...I guess the Rock Auto thing isn't all that hot either?
Marc, My local NAPA has one in the warehouse available today, list $67.70, my cost $47.80. Advanced can also get one. list is $64.30, my cost $47.70. I can order & then send it if this is the way you want to go. At least we know it's available.
Just to close this thread out; it was the fuel pump. I fought with the Rock Auto pump and managed to get it into the car and stop leaking. Seems the Koreans use metric threads on standard fittings, so the nipple I put in leaked like a sieve. I managed to get the leak stopped after about 3 attempts with teflon tape and goo, and the car worked well. It'll do 100 again, and it seems like it might be getting the secondaries again. It's pretty fast; almost as impressive as the Wildcat. Now I don't imagine this pump will hold together, so I do have another one coming. Tom has graciously offered to send one up here. (It's probably still 2 weeks away, but I needed to get the car moving now) I'm going to keep it as a spare for now, chances are I'm going to need it soon anyway. I'm really tired of this incredible lack of build quality that seems to come in from overseas. It's nice to have that effortless power back again; the q-jet will survive on the car to live another day, I won't put the AFB back on yet. Thanks to all for your advice!:TU:
Marc, Did you get the tracking number??? I shipped it out on 4/8/18 at 10:15 am. If not here it is" www.USPS.com LC907787873US. Checking it was in N.Y. on the 10th. of April. Here it is the 17th. & no updates since??? Tom T.
Hi Tom, Thanks for the tracking number, I'll look into it. Did my M/O get to you and clear? I got a notice in the mail this afternoon about a parcel waiting. I don't imagine it's the pump, simply because Canada Customs holds everything coming from the US for at least a week before someone there who still understands the English language figures out what to do with it. By now I'm sure a few of their sniffer dogs have peed on the package, and some recent ESL candidate is probably looking up the word "pump" under the "sexual aids" category. So I'm not concerned, yet. It also seems the tracking numbers become more or less useless once it crosses the border; - it'll usually show "at customs" when it's sitting on my desk. Cheers!
Yes, I got the PMO yesterday the 18th. & went to the PO & cashed it. Everything on my end is OK. It's been 11 days now & you don't have the part yet. Does it usually take this LONG???
Hi Tom, The pump arrived today, it looks great, thank you very much! Glad to hear everything on your end is fine; - yes, it usually takes even longer to get things up here. They have to portage it via Voyageur Canoe, they haven't caught up to modern technology yet. (It sure seems that way!) Cheers!
