1970-1971 GS Radiators Revisited…

Discussion in 'The Big Chill' started by dynaflow, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. thepartsman

    thepartsman Back Ordered Again ?

    And one more in the '72 BTN it's page 67 1972RADIATOR.jpg
     
  2. BuickV8Mike

    BuickV8Mike SD Buick Fan

    When does the 1969 GS BTN come out? ;):)
     
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  3. thepartsman

    thepartsman Back Ordered Again ?

    Ouch Mike,
    Quick Reference Guide
    pages 9, 28,29,30,68 and 69. QRG 65-75.jpg
     
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  4. Brett Slater

    Brett Slater Super Moderator Staff Member

    So, by this chart - and the one previous to it - the correct tanks for a non-air '70 Stage 1 car are: IA & XS?

    Where/when does the CF tank come into play?
     
  5. thepartsman

    thepartsman Back Ordered Again ?

    Radiator 3017258 SS :
    1969- 350-400 HD Cool & AC
    1970-71 W/O HD Cool & AC
    1970 – HD Cool & AC
    ALL Stage 1

    Radiator 3020113 SW :
    1970- Stage 1
    AC , HD Cool, MT a nd AT.

    Around late ’70 the SS code changed to SW therefore the tank codes changed too
    In other words the 3017258 carried the SW and the IA, XS tank codes.

    I find no mention of the 3020113 in any of my history books as changing
    Numbers or of being discontinued.
    The 3017258 ran its whole part life under that number and was discontinued
    Around 1980.

    My apologies for not following through on number changes for the radiators for both 70 & 71.
    If and when I update those books I will include those changes.

    David
     
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  6. thepartsman

    thepartsman Back Ordered Again ?

    Also on the charts the 3014623 SJ changed to the 3017258 SW in Dec. '71.
     
  7. buick64203

    buick64203 Just plum crazy Staff Member

    The POBF for my 70 Stage 1 4 speed says SJ for a radiator which is CF and IA tanks
     
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  8. thepartsman

    thepartsman Back Ordered Again ?

    In Dec of '71 the Radiator SJ 3014623 w/tanks IA & CF
    changed to SW 3017258 w/tanks IA & XS

    Your Radiator is correct for your build.
     
    Brett Slater likes this.
  9. dynaflow

    dynaflow shiftless...

    ...'71 Assy Manual page 11-4.3 revision record shows SS (3017258) radiator row added to radiator chart 10/28/70, specifically for GS (with an obvious error, 350 engine was available w/TH350). There were 2 more page revisions, latest 03/01/71, but nothing about SS replacing SW. By combining chart's SJ rows, it's clear SS superseded SJ, but not SW. SW remained on chart for HD Cooling and Stage1 at least thru 03/01/71 revision. I don't know if there was a later version of Assy Manual with further revisions to page 11-4.3 chart. I haven't seen an SS radiator tag with XS tank code, I would think if Harrison changed from CF to XS tank, radiator would get a new part# to distinguish it from ones with CF tank. Such a change would have required a Wholesale Order Form change.

    ...as noted in my previous post, I saw where the 3017258 (SS) part# showed up as a replacement in my Feb '72 edition of Master Parts Book for what had originally been SJ and SW radiators. "Original" and "replacement" aren't the same thing, especially for board members restoring to as-built. I don't know why Buick decided SS was an acceptable field replacement for SW, there must have been some kind of justifying documentation from Buick or Harrison...

    To reiterate, I'm no radiator expert, I only know what I've read. It's my understanding that there were rare assembly line radiator substitutions where an SW could have been originally installed in a car that should have gotten an SJ or SS. It's also my understanding that build sheets were pre-printed and would have shown what should have been installed, not what was substituted. I don't want to be a source of misinformation, so if anything I've posted is wrong, please correct it.
     
  10. Brett Slater

    Brett Slater Super Moderator Staff Member

    Dave,

    Which is correct for a 4th week of December built '70 Stage 1 4-speed?
     
  11. BuickV8Mike

    BuickV8Mike SD Buick Fan

    Is that to say a 1969 GS Stage 1 or 1969 GS 400 HD w/o AC would be a SS?
    I'm back on this again.
    Thanks Mike
     
  12. Duane

    Duane Member

    Mike,
    OK, I will help you out a little bit with the codes on your radiator......and this is the way it worked for all our year cars.

    First off, the Factory changed the radiators they used on our cars many times during the production years, therefore any hope of trying to figure out the right radiator for your car is destined for failure unless you first know when the car was built. Once you know that, then you might be able to come up with the right answer.........................and that answer would be the radiator that was supposed to be in the car........................and it is not necessarily what was installed, as they were often changed due to availability of the "correct" radiator on the day the car was built.

    Now with all that out of the way I will post 2 radiator charts from the Factory assembly manuals.
    The first is the 1968 chart. If you look at the top right hand corner you will see that there were 15 different revisions to this chart. The last one is revison "R" and is dated 4/3/68. That is the actual date this particular page was drawn, and the info on it is for revision "R".

    The second one is the 1969 chart. It has 5 revisions, which are shown at the top right hand corner. That page is revision "E" and is dated 9/12/69. That is the date it was drawn and is the info that is shown on the drawing.

    To figure out what radiator is "correct" for your car you can either go backward thru the revisions on the 69 page, or more easily, can use the 68 sheet as the starting point and "ADD" the revisions on the 69 sheet until you get to your build date.

    At that time you can come up with the right answer.
    Have at it and good luck with your search.
    Duane

    PS. If you look at the bottom right drawing on the 68 sheet (Page 11-4.3) you will see the slotted screw plug that was installed in the radiators. These plugs were installed in ALL the radiators when they were shipped to Final Assembly. The reason for this was to keep any foreign debris out of the "automatic" cooling line in the rad before assembly. The workers then took them out for the auto cars, or left them in for the stick shift cars. Not the other way around!!

    The workers did not "ADD" the plugs to the radiator, as many people think.



    1968 Buick Radiator Codes.jpg 1969 Buick Radiator Codes.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  13. dynaflow

    dynaflow shiftless...

    ...thanks Duane, for posting those Assy Manual pages, corrects my basic radiator misunderstanding. I thought engineering, as shown in Assy Manuals was "evolutionary," i.e. once a change/improvement was adopted, it remained until/if replaced by another in that or succeeding years. Appears from posted pages that wasn't case. Still don't get why, for example, if "SS" radiator was added for '69 models, it was in Revision Record again for same models in, say, '71, but I accept that was how it worked. Your advice to work forward/backward within year from your build is only correct way to know what was original. Then there's the caveat of what was actually installed, but we have to let that go when discussing "originality"...
     
  14. Duane

    Duane Member

    John,
    You are correct, once the changes were made they stayed that way until other changes occurred, but that was within the same production year. At least that is the way it is supposed to happen.

    The problem we have with the assembly manuals is the fact that we don't have all the different revisions for all the years. There are some gaps. On the 69 sheet it says some rad numbers were added, but where? and for what engine/trans applications? We just don't know. If you have the initial "start-up" page and the last revision, you could figure everything out.

    I do have a few different assembly manuals for some years, and this often helps figure the rads out.

    If you want, I can post every revision I have of the 68-72 rad pages. I only have 1 page each for the 68 & 69's so they are done.

    Remind me after the Nats.

    Also, for 72 the rads changed and were angled at the top for the filler neck. I don't think you can use the Parts books to ID this time period. They may have been still selling the earlier style for the replacement parts.

    The other thing is they made revisions to these parts all the time, like they did with tires. You are only going to get so close with this. At that point you need to look at what was put on the actual production cars themselves.

    Keep with it, you will figure it out, at least the majority of it.
    Duane
     
  15. BuickV8Mike

    BuickV8Mike SD Buick Fan

    Call me Perry Mason
     
  16. dynaflow

    dynaflow shiftless...

    ...when you have time...
    ...first+last (or only) for each year, revision record will show incremental changes. Can you increase image resolution, can't read revision record in above pics when enlarged...:(
     
  17. Duane

    Duane Member

    John,
    No problem. Send me a PM after MACAN so I will remember, otherwise...………………………..
    Duane
     
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