Ok guys heres one for youi as reading about a carberator the other day that a gentleman invete and he was getting like 200 miles to the gallon but when he went to get the patent ford offered him a large amount of money and he sold the design to them. I told my buddies this an they got really excited and were trng to dream p ways of there own. I told them that since none of us have thermodynaics or physics degrees thais mightbe out of our scoop of knowledge but we did come up with something i also read that ford is using the airconditioning refrigerent and pumping it through the intercooler to cool dowm he incoming charge.( I am talking about the supercharged lighting). So i thought of this what if you used a carb spacer between the carb and intake and in that spacer there were small veins in which you could pump the aircondtioing refregerent through to cool the incoming intake charge. This would make the mixture become more dense and then make more power. My question is do you knw if this wold cause the engine to stumble like on a cold moring or would this be bennifisical. Just throwing out some ideas let me know what you think Adam
First off, to lean a mixture down enough to get significantly more miles per gallon would need to have both the air and fuel heated. Second, that's just what Smokey Yunick did with his hot vapor cycle engine. Third, the colder the air/engine temps, the richer the mixture has to be, and that's the reason smart people don't hack the chokes off their carbs. !
That's the problem.......what drives the pump? all the economy and power you gain from the cooled dense mixture is lost on running either a direct driven pump or an electric pump via and alternator ....... The power has to come from somewhere. Mike
I'm not sure, but i believe that only the fuel would have to be heated becuase you you get more power from the dense air, but in a normal engine the fuel and air are mixted before vaporization causing the to heat up, thus becoming less dense. I think (not sure) that yunicks enigine vaporized the fuel and injected it into the cooler air going into the cobustion chamber. Of couse, i could just be talking out of my ass, it's been known to happen before.
if the fuel is too cold, it will not mix with the air. In this case it would probally condense on the veins, and not work well... AC steal power.
I can see you in my head scrambling to the garage to bolt the choke plate back on your qjet:grin: :grin:
The weather is so mild here (no snow or ice - ever) that I get in, pump the pedal 2 or 3 times and it fires right up. Hardly ever fails and if it does then I repeat step 1 and it will always start the second time. 1 minute warm up and I'm off. No fuss- no muss. Plus I've got this really neeto small body HEI distributor (and a crane PS40 coil) that never fails. I do have all the original choke mechanism though - just in case.
The whole thing about the topic wasn't power, but 200 mpg. To do that, you need the fuel at its most vaporous point, and that cannot be done with cooler air. Both airand fuel temps must be homogenous and proper to support each other. Now, for more power, yup, buddy cooler air, richer mixtures, sure, but forget about the 200 mpg, ain't a gonna happen.
i know that the 200 mile per gallon thing wouldn't happen. I really wasn't looking to tye tht in with this sorry for the cnfusion. just looking at ways to maybe makesome more power it was a thought i guess. As for the pump i was thinking electric something fairly small. well scratch that idea. Thanks for the info though it was much appreciated thanks Adam
One more question if you cooled the air below the carb like using the carb spacer wouldn't the incoming charge be already mixed so the fuel and air tempature would be the same. thanks adam
would be the same, but just a touch cooler I use a carb spacer to keep the gas/air mixture a little bit colder in the carb as it passes thru to the intake valves, so you have more dense, shot of air/fuel and you gain a little bit of power. It also increases the top end power slightly as well. Made my car run more consistant than anything. Power and Gas Milage are inverses on a NA engine. Hell I'm lucky if my buick gets 7 MPG. In short a spacer made from wood or phenolic type material is always a plus.
I was thinking about that last night after i posted, and you're right. hot air, being less dense would need less fuel to maintain a soichiometric mixture.
Cooling the mixture back off between the throttle plates and intake valves would cause a couple of issues: The vaporous state of the fuel would fall back into a larger molecular structure, raindrop vs. minute fog droplet. Air/fuel mixture velocity would be adversely affected from boundary layer changes against the port walls from the weight of the mixture changing, which would affect the inner column of mixture and its flow efficiency, and on...and on...
Ok guys so what i would want to do is to cool the air via ram air or something like that and warm the incoming fuel to help turn it in to vapor. i probaly said it much simlper than what it needs to be. IT makes lot of sence if i would have only thought about all those chemistry classes i took last semester and how the phase of gases and liquids work thanks for straightening me out Adam
No, no, the inlet air has to be hot in the hot vapor cycle engine, not cold. Hot air promotes molecular vapor suspension, cold air doesn't. Stop thinking Top Fuel performance, this is about mileage, not speed.
