455 running 210-220 at idle in 100 degree weather

Good evening All,
I recently started a tread on my 1970 Buick 455 engine in reference to the " noisy valve train".Now the valve train is of no concern now I'm having overheating issues. Quick overview! I recently installed a new cam and had the machine shop to install new valve springs, valves and a mild port job ( just cleaning the intake and exhaust flow up a little). Got cam broken in but the temp got up to 210-220(180 thermostat) . Shut engine down and got back flow up thru the reserve tank until it was filled. I took the radiator cap off at same time and water and steam just burst out. I have tried to burp the system( let car ran almost a hour ) and it did burp but temp goes back up. Attempted this a few times. Machine shop suggest I do a combustion test. Test came out blue( twice) . And now I'm asking for anything or suggestions to correct this issues. I have tried to upload pics and videos of my issues and no success. Thanks for any suggestions !

Larry

 

Whats your timing set at? If your cooling system is working properly, high temps at idle could indicate not enough advance.

 

Good morning,
Thanks . Radiation is a 3 core brass/ copper ( brand new) . I used a bottle of green antifreeze and finish filled up with distilled water and a bottle of wetter water.all of their has spilled out and now I'm use just water from the hose to fill it up. Fan shroud is not the best and I wish I could find one that fit the best . My flex fan sits outside the shroud about 2 inches . I'm going toward timing as well. This is what I don't to set the timing . Larry , i measured a 1 3/4. Clockwise and made a mark,(30 degrees). Got some one to raise the idle and when that 30 degree mark came to zero. I lock distributor there. I am very new to timing and I'm not offended by corrective criticism . If some one would give me a call or PM ,help me with this issues ,would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!!


Larry

 

In my opinion, your shroud is a major concern. Your fan blades should be half way in, and half way out of the fan shroud. Being 2" back of the shroud, seems like an issue to me. I recommend an aluminum radiator, 160* thermostat, proper fan shroud and clutched fan and blades, and proper timing. (Also, I am not a big fan of flex fans.) My timing is at 18* at idle, about 750- 800 in park. I have no cooling issues,no matter what the temps. If I were you, I would first look for the correct shroud and fan blades etc. Then go from there. I also use "Red Line" water wetter, and more distilled water than anti-freeze. Just my 2 cents.

 

Also, accurate timing is crucial. You need to figure out where you are in regards to your actual timing; that is something that needs to be spot on, you cannot guess. Bet of luck.

 

Thanks Larry!. Update! I went out this morning and remove the flex fan and replace it with my clutch fan that i had before and recheck the timing( with vacuum advance plugged this time) I missed that step yesterday☹️. I was able to drive it to machine shop and they check timing and all was good. Recommended a bigger carb because engine was running lean. Thanks to V8 BUICK!

LARRY((the wizard), my car is a 1970. I have to upload a better pic, new look

 

Don't take cap off when hot....all that does is lower boiling point and cause even antifreeze mix to boil.

 

Sorry for late response. I've been busy . Well back to the 455 running warm. Larry , yes I did take it back to the shop that did the heads and yes, the timing was off. They set the timing at 32 degrees. Told me to pull a spark plug and the plug was white and informed me the car was running lean. I'm running a Holley 750 DP.

BQuick, dearly noted!!!!
Thanks


Larry

 

What rpm is the engine spinning while in drive?

Using the stock set up its supposed to be 500ish when warmed up but once then engine got to 215*-220* (if i remember right) it would open the port to the vacuum advance (thus speeding up the engine) until it came down a bit. If you are using straight manifold vacuum to the vacuum advance then maybe try bumping the idle speed to something closer to 700?
The stock style clutch fan with properly set fan and shroud pulls a TON of air from 800rpm up (idling in park with ac OFF). Mine pulls so strong it will suck and hold fairly heavy objects against the radiator/condenser. It once held a mostly empty 32 oz dollar store squirt bottle while I was cleaning LOL

160* is too low they came stock with 195* thermostats and while not optimum for performance having temps above 210* shouldn't hurt anything.

In my experience blocking off the exhaust heat intake manifold crossover has a bigger effect on drivability (mostly low end torque) than actual engine temp. It noticably drops under hood temps which helps the engine draw in cooler air and is probably a little easier on everything under the hood.
Though all of my methods to do this have not lasted very long.....................but thats another story

 

mine ran hot too the first season it was out, brass 3 row radiator, would run up to 230 if you let it... stock fan shroud, stock 7 blade fan, new stock clutch 33 total timing 16 initial timing all iron 455. swapped out radiator to a champion 3 row aluminum radiator car runs at 180...

 

Bumped the idle a bit now turning 650 in drive with ac running and 105* outside.
Engine temp 200* at idle.

Had a problem with the fuel return line having a mild restriction causing it to flood when its really warm but running some 10awg wire through the hose seemed to cure that.

 

Hey members,
Thanks for all your response and suggestions. I thought I had this overheating or running to warm for me still exist. The latest. Today , drove the car out (100) degrees and drove the car on freeway for about 10 mins and get off freeway temp gauge 200. Got to my destination like maybe 15 min temp at 220 and oil pressure at 3-5 pounds idle at red light. Car ran bad all the way home. 240 at home . Shut engine off and top radiator hose was hard as a brick. Thanks is not the first time this happen, I've changed 3 thermostats , new 3 core brass/ copper radiator, clutch fan, and a big block fan shroud I bought off a member a few years ago. I am told radiator is not big enough, my fan shroud is not the right one . I would like to upload videos and photos but I'm having problems uploading them.

Car is a 1970 Buick 455, 30 over, ta forged(no notch) Pistons, stock rods, had a 212 cam but went with a bigger cam ( bullet279/288-12h cam), new springs and valves. Machine shop say they cleaned up heads a Lillie like and shave a Lillie off to bump up compression ( per my request) . Oh I'm running a sp1 intake with a Holley 750.
I contacted a board member in my area and I'm going to trailer car to him soon to get to the bottom of this. I will keep posting updates.

Larry in the SF bay

 

I doubt its too small a radiator.
I went from the stock 3 row brass to a two 1" row aluminum one and it dropped the temps a bit it was not like a night and day difference. I'm talking maybe a couple few degrees like going from 200 to 195*.

Engine cooling isn't just airflow and radiator size. Total timing (including vacuum advance) makes MASSIVE difference. Having total timing at 32* without any extra coming from the vacuum advance will make it significantly warmer under ALL conditions. Total timing really should be around 42ish (or a little more) while at freeway rpms. I think mine is at 44* but it has been a while since I verified timing on my car. Adjusting the timing isn't simply turning the distributor
either. Mine has different weights, springs and a homemade travel limiter on the vac advance.

I do not recall you ever mentioning what the idle speed is while in drive or how many rpms its turning at freeway speeds. These factors all play a part.

My car does not overheat when stock everything is working correctly. BUT if one thing is taken away. Not enough timing, vacuum leak, clutch problems etc it will very quickly get warm.

210* idle with ac running in 100*+ weather but dropping down to closer to thermostat temp while underway is not "overheating"

 

I once put a water pump on "cardone" after my pump failed. The car was cooling fine until I replaced the pump. It went from running 180-185 to instantly 210-220. I removed the pump and found that the impeller on the new pump was different. The replacement impeller had less blades and the passages were about 30% smaller. The impeller also seemed to be made of a heavy cast iron. I got another replacement from another store, the impeller looked the same as the first pump. The engine cooled properly again.
I didn't see you mention anything about your pump, but just wanted to pass on this info. BTW, your 3 core radiator should cool that engine. I had a 3 core and it cooled just fine. Went to an Alumitech when the radiator started leaking. I run the Mr. Gasket High Flow 180* thermostat. I found that my engine liked to run a little warmer with a standard Stant.

 

oh and be sure to check fan orientation. I once attached a fan on backwards.....................................swear to god. Funny thing was it just ran really warm but never did overheat LOL

 

my question, was your car running hot like this before you pulled the heads off, had them mildly ported, and installed the new cam??? when you say you have done 2 combustion tests, I know you are referring to using the blue fluid, and beeker over radiator cap hole, was the car running and up to temp when you did it, are you sure the fluid did not turn yellow after setting a few minutes???

 

Larry, another item you can check is the lower radiator hose while someone revs the engine. If it is collapsing when the engine is revved up it needs to be replaced. I think the factory hoses had a steel spring inside them. Good luck.