Thanks Bob, if you think it will be helpful I would greatly appreciate the floor pan. If nothing else, I might be able to use it to fix the area which is damaged without removing the whole pan. The left side of the right floor pan is still good, so who knows. I will send you my address off-list. The carpet is fawn with black and silver mixed in. If that is tuxedo/fawn then I suppose it is the same. But wasn't yours damaged in the same spot?
Yes, it was. I was curious about the size because I have the center sections from the front and rear of my old flooring. They are not great, but if you just had a small section that was damaged they might work as scrap pieces. Just a shot in the dark.
Mine was in pretty bad shape on the right front. I cut it from the transmission hump over to the door, from the front to the front of the front seat. It's not a big deal, by the time I'm ready for it, I will have my finances in better shape I'm sure.
Oh, the humanity! http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-BUICK-...498&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=1&sd=221134397711& 4411 stick. No radio or clock. No map light. That would indicate a VERY stripped-down base car. Please part this, mon frere.
Work out of town has halted any progress on my '60 for well over a year. Tired of getting nothing done, one weekend while back at home, I pulled out the original 3 speed transmission. I loaded it as well as a '40s nailhead 3 speed box in the back of my truck to swap the gear sets when I had some time while out of state. Recently completed the swap and I'll run through the details as soon as I can download the pics. Steve weim55
The Problem....... A '60 LeSabre with the three speed stick transmission comes standard with a 3.91 axle gear. At 75 mph the calculator says 3700 rpm with the 3.91s. Top speed of 87 mph @ 4200rpm. That isn't going to get it. I live in a rural area and 90% of drive time is on the freeway. I had the 3.23 axle from the Invicta parts car so I swapped it in. The new problem is since the 1st gear ratio is a tall 2.17 now the car is just a pig to get rolling. Slipping the clutch and 1st gear goes on forever. Ruining the fun of having the stick tranny in the first place. With what little information I could find it seems the orgins of HD Buick 6 bolt 3-speed go back to '37 and the straight eight years. Only two different ratios were offered: my 2.17 first and the earlier (pre '53 I think..) 2.40 first. I got lucky and found a '40 to '48 box (so I'm told..) missing the input retainer and output u joint to use as donor for the gearset. Here's numbers: Original trans and axle: 2.17 X 3.91 = 8.48 Original trans and 3.23s 2.17 X 3.23 = 7.01 New 2.40 first and 3.23s 2.40 X 3.23 = 7.75 The new 2.40 ratio won't quite get me back to the launch ratio of the original setup. About right in the middle. Hopefully it will be enough to make the car fun and livable to drive again. On with the swap..... Steve weim55 Colorado
Unfortunatly the donor transmission has a much shorter talilshaft so parts must be swapped into the '60 box. Once apart there were differences but none that couldn't be overcome. In the first two pics you can see the huge difference in the output shaft lengths. Too bad Buick didn't hang an overdrive unit off the back of that three speed in '60. There's plenty of room. If I had a mill and a lathe I would have loved to that on my own. Maybe someday..... The differences in the parts swapped from the straight 8 box you can see in pics 3 and 4. Input shafts share the same spline, pilot diameter and bearing. Difference is the overall length is shorter on the straight 8 shaft. We'll deal with that in a little bit. The countershaft is a direct swap but if you look close you can see the width of the gears on the straight 8 unit (left side in the pic) are slightly narrower than the gears on the '60. More capacity for the torquier nailhead. I had to use the 2nd speed gear from the '60 box because the output shaft it rides on are different diameters. Amazingly the teeth counts were the same. That puts a slightly wider gear riding on a narrower countershaft gear. That's it. Both transmissions were in super condition throughout. I was able to use every part with just a cleanup reoil and install. Getting lucky here....... Steve weim55 Colorado
The shorter length of the input shaft could have killed the whole deal but I had a huge stroke of luck. Remember that pilot bearing adaptor I installed in the 401 crank ? The botched one ? That mistake saved the day as you can see in the pics. I mocked installed the transmission minus the clutch and checked the proper depth of the input to the pilot adapter. Took a new pilot bushing cut it down and drove it to the proper depth into the adaptor. Another easy fix... Steve weim55 Colorado
Second problem...... Clutch chatter. With the engine idling resting your foot on the clutch you could feel and hear a vibration transmitting to the pedal. From a standing stop the clutch would chatter no matter how you tried to manipulate engine speed and clutch engagement. I remembered the three finger pressure plate had adjustable fingers so I thought I would adjust the installed height with the trans out of the car to correct the problem. I was half right. The installed height of the fingers was off. About .060 lowest to highest. The problem wasn't the pressure plate. It turned out to be a bad clutch disc. Measuring the disc at different points with a dial caliper I found a .070 difference. Clutch disc is a common 11" coarse spline GM unit. $40 bucks. New NAPA disc, problem solved. Steve weim55 Colorado
Reinstall the transmisson...... I mention this part because it is no treat to R and R the trans in this car. This ain't no typical musclecar driveline. Here's the steps... With rachet straps attached to the rear bumper and the rear axle, pull the axle and torque tube toward the rear of car so the torque tube flange is completely out of the fixed crossmember. (why on earth didn't buick make this cross member removable !!??) Hold the torque tube up with a floor jack. On your 2nd floor jack place the trans with the bellhousing installed. Slip the pressure plate and disc in position in the bellhousing NOT on the flywheel. With the fixed crossmember there is no room to get the transmission in there with the clutch installed on the flywheel. Or the bellhousing on the engine. You have to carefully raise the transmission, bellhousing and clutch into place then bolt the pressure plate to the flywheel through the "window" in the bottom of the bellhousing. (It's a bitch to get all this alined blind on your back...) Clock the splines on the transmission output to the driveshaft in the torque tube and carefully release the rachet strap one click at a time until the shafts mate. Adjust the floor jack to the correct height and if you're lucky the two shafts didn't move positon and mate correctly. Then comes the torque tube bolts, transmission crossmember, e brake cable, connect the brake line, (it goes down the torque tube NOT the frame) bleed the brakes, shift linkage, clutch linkage, fill the trans with oil..... And wala, time for the test drive..... Hot damn ! It works........ And really well I have to say. Clutch chatter is gone. Nice and smooth on engagement. The gear change made a big difference. Now the car rolls out nicely from a stop. No more slipping the clutch excessively to get her moving. Will motor around at parking lot speeds without jerking and lugging. The wider ratio is much better to accelerate through. Transmission operation is great. Quiet and smooth. Being picky I wish I had I little more gear but this will do. Hopefully I will be home and have the time to get to the rest of the car soon... Steve weim55 Colorado
Boy, Steve, is it ever good to see you back here. I was wondering how you were doing, and how your project was going. I am working on my floors now. I elected to use a POR-15 process rather than weld them and so far I am not sorry. The right front floor is stiffer now than the mostly intact driver's side floor. The process really works. I am glad you are posting some clutch stuff. I will probably have to remove the tube again because I think I botched the prop shaft seal installation, and I am wondering if I should consider removing the transmission and replacing the clutch at the same time. I have never done a clutch. Your experience will help, as usual.
I have not done much work on the NJ '60 since my last post. The floor work went very well- the POR15 is amazing- but a lot of things have come up. Work has taken on a whole new dynamic and I am working a lot, and probably will well into the future (~2 years +). In addition, a moving mishap left me with a badly torn rotator cuff and every day involves pain. It may never fully heal, even with therapy and surgery. It's really dampened my enthusiasm for nitty-gritty car work. I have begun to consider a sale of the Buick in favor of something I can buy as a turn-key car. What would you guys think the Buick would be worth, in its current nick? The interior is out now but I'd put it back in and it would be really presentable. Body is good except for that spot on the quarter and a little bit of rust at the extreme lower quarters. As you have seen, the trim is excellent, and the mechanics are extremely solid except for a couple of nagging issues. Thanks. Let me know what you think.
Really sorry to hear of your recent problems Bob, I know all too well how an injury can make you feel towards something that you love to work on. It took me a long time before I got back into the groove on mine, but thankfully I now have a nice warm garage in which to work on it and that makes a lot of difference. As for the worth of your car, no one but you can decide that. Only you know how much time and money you have put into the car and how much of a compromise you are willing to make. You can almost be assured that what you get for the car will not match what you think it should be worth. Potential buyers won't understand the attachment that you have for the car until they have owned and cared for one. I only saw one '60 Buick on Ebay, and my thoughts on it was that it's not worth what they are asking. I understand asking more than you actually want for a car as you can always come down, but in that case it's way too high to start with. Just my opinion. I did see one on YouTube for sale and sold, but it was a few years back. You can view it here if you have not done so already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MH0vVaAA78 Hope you change your mind, I've really enjoyed reading your posts and all of the help you have provided.
OK Dino Bob: There are several strategies here in which you can keep your car. First to consider, there are other people and shops that can do the work on your car. It's not the end of the world if someone finishes it. Second, you could get a second opinion on that torn rotator cuff. I believe many pitchers in the majors have had that surgery successfully and who is the holy grail person to say it might never heal? Never surrender your power to doctors. I know very little about medicine and less about doctors, except, that they like to cut and give everybody powerful drugs. I would look all over the place for a course of therapy. Hey, who knows, maybe you will wind up finishing, driving and enjoying that trippple pedal after all. It's ultimately up to you. Mitch
I have listed the car for sale locally and have keen interest from a collector of '60 Buicks (he has four currently). I priced it at what I think is a fair number given the plethora of work done to it and the rarity of the car. If I don't get an offer at my price I'll regroup and think it over, and perhaps do some more work when my schedule frees up a bit. I absolutely adore the car- that's part of why I am considering the sale, actually. It makes me sick to see cars sit around unfinished and unused. I have very little tolerance for that.
OK Bob: How much do you want for it? Just out of curiosity, who is your prospect with 4 60 Buicks? The reason I ask is that I also own several examples of the 60 Buick. Mitch
Mitch, I felt that it would be best to keep that info on the DL while I contemplated the sale. Even now I think it best to allow the new owner to divulge that info if they so choose. Yes, new owner. The first prospective buyer to come saw the car for what it is- a car with some work needed but tremendous upside and real rarity- and bought the car on the spot at my (fair) asking price. I will be lurking and will always be available to lend any advice borne of the experience I gained here- and I really learned a lot during this past two plus years- but for me, my chapter of this long and interesting story ends here.
NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DINOBOB SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SOLD THE BUICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very Sad Day.
