Hi all! Hope you've been well during my absence! A friend of a friend has acquired a '63 Riv and blown the motor. Don't ask me how but he's not as mechanically minded as us and general conclusion is he probably overheated it and kept on driving it. In any even it's got a 4 inch 'inspection hole' in the side of the block. Big shame, especially as we're in Ireland and I can't just pop down the road and pick up a freshly built 401 to drop back in! Engine is a standard 4bbl 401 Nailhead. So what to do? Firstly I'm right in thinking '63 is the last year of Dynaflows? Naturally I want him to keep it all Buick. If I culd find a replacement 401 that would be my first choice, even a short motor. I'll look around in the UK and Ireland for one but don't expect to find much unless I'm lucky. I know of only 4 Nailhead Buicks in Ireland; this one, my '65 Skylark and 2 others. Will a 455 fit? They put the 455 in the '67 and on Rivs but did they modify the frame? Is the 455 too wide? Will the 455 bolt up to the Dynaflow ?(I think not) What else will bolt up to the Dynaflow? Can if fit with modifications? If so what modifications? If I get a 455 and it won't fit the Dynaflow what trans would I need? I've a fully built 425 Dual Quad Nailhead and switch pitch trans from a '66 LX Riv but that is (/was) destined for my Skylark. However will it fit in the '63 Riv? Is the Dynaflow prop different to the Switch pitch (which is essentially a TH400) prop? I think it is - closed driveline? :eek2: Secondly (!) How much is this Riv likely to be worth in its current state, given the scarcity of Nailheads and difficulty of finding them here? It's a so-so car with a quick black paint job (at least its a gloss black and not a satin black job). How much is it likely to be worth with the motor redone and installed and fully working? Thanks all, Peace, Nick
Ok, '63 was the last year for the Dynaflow. A 455 would physically fit, but the motor mounts are different, and it will NOT bolt up to the Dynaflow. Only a Nailhead will bolt up to a Dynaflow, and it has to be a unit from '63 or earlier. You'd need a BOP TH400 to bolt up to the 455. Your 425 and ST400 will drop right in. All you'd need to do is get a different trans crossmember. Also, the ST400 trans yoke is different, and because the ST400 is longer, you'd need to shorten the driveshaft. I believe I shortened mine 5in to fit the ST400. No idea what it would worth - hope I've been some help! Let me know if you need any info regarding the ST400 swap. Should be pretty similar to what I had to do in my '62.
Hi Nick, Not sure about your questions, but I have a 63 401 sitting here. It has not run but it does turn. I can have it rebuilt and shipped to Ireland if you want it. Might have to come over and help with the installation too...will work for Guinness :beer Ted
No, no, the bop th400 will not fit a nailhead engine.... you have to have a 64 th400 or better yet the 65-66 switch pitch th400..... 64-65-66 buick th 400's have the unique round bell housing pattern....the others will not fit.....:Smarty:
Now that sounds like an offer that would be hard to refuse. :beers2: :TU: Besides that option the 66 Dual quad/TH400 setup will go in with minimal work as mentioned. Wanted to ad to statement above that you will need to change the shift console because the 63 trans only has 2 drive postions and the later one has 3. Or, you could keep shift console as is and just don't use low gear. Some have opted to do that. For the most part, any time a Buick has an OEM dual quad setup installed, the ratio of value increase on the car is about 1:1. In other words, here in the states a complete dual quad setup with air cleaner (less engine) will sell for say $1800-$2200 by itself. Put it on a car and the value of the car goes up by the same amount. No clue if that would be true in Ireland. Having said that, I'd exhaust every option to find a 63 or earlier nailhead but if the cost to do that is prohibitive, I would opt for replacing it with the 66 setup. The additional work needed to install the 66 setup would likely will outweigh the cost to get a rebuilt engine sent over but you'd have to carefully evaluate that. The switch pitch setup would be very attractive to me and could be part of the justification. It makes a big difference on a heavy car like the Riv. Good Luck
Ted, now that could be a plan! If you come over you'll have to bring the Nailhead in your luggage! :beer
Thanks all, Interesting thoughts. How many gears (3?) and what final drive did the Dynaflow have (1:1?) and please tell me it doesn't have a closed driveline! Any idea on the value of this car - as is with the blown engine and with a newly rebuilt '63 Nailhead, and with my 66 425 Dual Quad and Switch pitch in there?
The Dynaflow didn't have gears - it's an interesting transmission. It did have a 1:1 final drive. It's got an open driveshaft that runs thru the center of the x-frame.
Andy, thanks. At least the open driveline is a relief! Doc, thanks - why the smaller pulley? will the pump turn too fast with the bigger pulley? thanks, regards, Nick
The big pulley will make the pump turn slower. A smaller pulley will increase coolant flow, and should make the motor run cooler.
Yep, a water aint really a water pump,,,, it just moves the water thru the block not a pump like a oil pump is... a oil pump is a positive displacement but the water pump kind of just stirs the water thru the engine... so the more action you have on it , the better....
Thanks guys, Yes clouded thinking - bigger pulley, more distance for the belt to run for one revolution of the shaft. Shame cos its's chromed like the factory dual quad intake!
Just to clarify things; (Sorry Doc) The water pump is known as a "centrifugal pump", and its advantages over a positive displacement pump in the cooling system service are numerous. The centrifugal pump can run dry, and has an internal pressure relief, so if the system plugs it won't blow apart. That being said, it doesn't generate pressure, and only increases velocity. It works like a prop in the water; - all it does is pull and re-direct flow. It relies on a certain amount of head pressure to work. Centrifugal pumps are used whenever a large volume of fluid is required to be moved around fast, which is why they are used instead of positive displacement pumps in this service. A smaller pulley will move the impellor faster, and this could do one of two things; - move more liquid faster, or, if there's a restriction in the system, cause the pump to cavitate and stall the movement of the liquid. We all know that when changing out pumps, or draining the system that it has to be "burped" before it will work right. Air is this type of pump's worst enemy; any air in the system will cause the flow to "hang up" and your system will boil over. A lot of us have taken these pumps off and noticed a lot of pitting and degredation in both the case and the impellor; - this is almost always caused by cavitation; - the pump is being restricted or has an air bubble and the remaining spinning solution actually boils in the volute and causes damage. The gear style pump used on the oil side of things is a positive displacement pump; it requires a separate pressure relief system otherwise it will break. This type of pump is usually used in moving heavy slurry (oil) and is great as long as it retains a prime and as long as the liquid being pumped is free of large particulates. It looses efficientcy when the viscosity of the liquid drops; - these types of pumps can't be used for pumping water because the "compressibility" (viscosity) of water is negligable. It kind of works like putting a chunk of rubber between two spinning wheels; - because the rubber is solid, as it passes between the two wheels it'll be compressed and accelerated, whereas if you ran water you might get a little spray but nothing else. These pumps will only move a small amount of fluid but under high pressure, and will work well against restrictive pressure. Lucky for us all the engineers designed the cooling system to work with a multitude of different pumps and impellor sizes, so as long as your cooling system is clear putting on a bigger shiv should work well. Sorry about the lecture; - didn't mean to hijack the thread, but I work with these things all day long...
Phew! Thanks. :grin: So will it run OK with the current pulley (it's been on there a while ...) or do I need a smaller one, if so, what size please? And whilst I'm on it. What's a '63 Riv worth in decent condition and what's one worth with a blown engine .... roughly ... please? thanks, Nick
You'll be fine with the non A/C pulley. Maybe $4-5k running, probably $2-3k with a blown motor (roughly). But that's here in the US - you being in Ireland would definitely effect the price, how much I'm not sure.
I can only imagine what shipping would cost to Ireland. Even up here to Canada shipping anything close to 1000 lbs is prohibitively expensive. I could buy cheap blocks anywhere in the US, but find someone who could ship it up here to western Canada; - they all wanted a fortune! And even then, a "hot-shot" trip would still take 2 weeks from the eastern US! Be careful, and get the shipping costs upfront and in writing...
