If you search the auction history there is no non GSX automatic hardtop getting anywhere near 90k , except for the factory show car - that’s a whole another level . There are zero comps to even justify that outlandish reserve . Maybe seller knows someone on staff ? As someone mentioned if this was a brown car that’s nom and wrecked , it probably stalls out at 30k. So it was 60k extra . The buyer seems happy and hopefully did their homework, so that’s all that matters . And seller can go buy another corvette .
Well, I agree completely about the color being a huge factor. How much did the GS Stage Convertible just sell for? $285k? Prices are up, time will tell if it's a trend or a blip. If you can buy a car this nice for $30k somewhere, let me know.
I will buy 5 restored brown 1970 Stage 1 NOM previously wrecked cars today if you can find them for me at $30K a piece, and I don't care how many miles they have on them.
Are we absolutely certain that this car has a restamped motor? What is the meaning of the 290 stamped on this block or that character set stamped on any Buick block? If anyone knows the meaning, how are those numbers deciphered? The reason I ask these questions are two fold: 1. It seems not terribly uncommon for Buicks to have hand stamped block VINs as this vehicle does. 2. It is not unusual for the font of individual characters in a stamp to change throughout the production year. For example, in the Corvette world they maintain a catalog of known original engine stamps, and the only way to verify with certainty that an engine is original to a particular vehicle is to compare the block in question to other similar blocks stamped within a day or two of the subject vehicle. The reason they have to do this is because the individual stamp characters were constantly wearing out and being swapped for new characters with a different font (e.g. the "9" stamped on January 17, 1967 may be a completely different font than the "9" stamped on January 15, 1967. Therefore, the only way to verify originality is to compare the engine in question to 2 or 3 other known original stamp engines also produced on January 17, 1967). While it seems probable that the engine in this car is a restamp, I hate the thought of passing judgement without being absolutely certain.
Again, not familiar with '70's era 455's, but in the early to mid '60's Nailheads the stamped number following the two letter h.p. code (in this case 290) signified the shift number at the engine plant. Regarding your Corvette analogy, we have an exact comparison in that someone posted the exact same stamp from another block which was apparently built on the same shift! That strikes me as an amazing piece of data; what are the chances? But on the upside, the stamps on the rest of the drivetrain, trans and rear axle, substantiate the originality. I don't understand why it's such a huge deal that one of the ultimate '70's muscle cars, built with an engine with well documented oiling issues, either has an engine block replacement or an original block which has been machined and restamped? Who knows, maybe there was an issue with the standard stamping fixture at the engine plant and the assembly line folks had to improvise with a non standard stamp set? I have a Nailhead in a VERY original car with an extra character in the engine stamp that no one can explain, perfect original font? In the car docs there is a telegram from the car shipper to the dealer that delivery was delayed because the car was held up in quality control! So who really knows? Things like that happen in a high production environment. The ideal would have all legitimate stamps in tact, but with the docs presented and otherwise number matching drivetrain stamps, this car gets as close to ideal as possible. It's very unusual to find any car with this much documentation, much less an SCO '70 Stage car. The only way that happens is if the original owner is a collector at heart. Tom Mooney
Since there were only about 4,788 Stage 1's ever produced (including convertibles - excluding a few hundred GSX's), how many real ones do you think are left as whole cars (in any condition)? And given 1970 and 1971 were bad years for VIN verification, all one needs is a good knowledge of what to do; which is spelled out on this site a few times over. That's why about half of the Stage 1's I see for sale are fakes, in one way or another. And I've seen some really good fakes, even at Mecum. But, then again, no one cares...
Excellent points, Tom. I am not a "numbers" guy, and quite frankly don't understand the mentality of if it doesn't have the original EVERYTHING, its basically worth half of a numbers car or worse to some guys. Who cares? Oh no, the engine got swapped out under warranty at some point in time, because it was RACED! Oh no, the original distributor had a bushing go bad and got swapped out with a NAPA replacement while on a road trip to Disney Land in 1978, or the Q-jet had a shaft bushing go bad and swapped with a re-man, or worse, a Double Pumper. Oh hell, the trans took a crap or the rear diff had a bearing go bad and was swapped for the same thing at some point to keep the car on the road and wasn't junked over a simple component failure......good lord, this is still a "one owner", proven SCO car, and a beautiful one at that. WTF difference does it REALLY make if it does have a restamped 455 block? WTF better is the original block than the replacement, functionally? Sure, I'm sure it's really neato and keen to have the engine never be pulled before to some, but seriously, what difference does it make?.....ya'll better not be in the "classic car" or "classic truck" industry when the vehicles from the past 20 years are considered to be "collectible", because I can guarantee you a good 50% of everything with an LS in it that is 10 years old is already packing a replacement engine, and in the next 10 years that'll be at 75%.
Being absolutely certain? The seller has to prove it, the buyer doesn't have to disprove it. But, today's market has it in reverse. If you have a rare car (or are just a car buff), wouldn't you have your machine shop document the fact they are restamping? The car that sold had a dozen receipts from a restorer (not that they were posted individually) and there was no documentation shown of original stamps or verification that stamps were redone. I haven't changed a bolt in mine without keeping notes; just because those before me did the same thing...
Not a Buick, but my Mach 1 is originally a full load, Ivy Glow/Argent with white deluxe interior, 302, 3 speed manual, with a 3.00 rear gear peg leg 8 inch rear diff. Never got a Marti report, because quite frankly I don't give a rip, but most "in the know" agree it's most likely a 1 of 1 car. It was all numbers matching when I got it in 1992 at age twelve. In absolutely mint condition in pure stock form, it'd be worth around $20-25K. I pulled the perfectly functioning numbers matching engine and trans at age 13 and sold them both for $125, and swapped in a tired 351 Cleveland two barrel and an FMX auto trans, and immediately increased the car's value. I blew up the original 8 inch rear diff, and swapped for a 9 inch at age 15, and increased the car's value. As a senior in high school, I pulled the engine, rebuilt it with 4V heads, a 4 barrel, 850 double pumper, headers, nitrous, yadayada, swapped out the FMX for a built C6, and put a different 9 inch in it, and increased it's value. On the way back to my 10 year class reunion, I blew that Cleveland up. I swapped out that Cleveland for a 552" stroker big block I built, a different C6, and a different 9 inch again, and guess what? I increased it's value again. The car now appraised just a scoche over $80k.....Those basically 4 engine swaps, 5 rear diffs, and 4 transmission swaps (and a color change to a non-factory color as well) increased my car's value with every single change, and now it's worth 3-4 times what it would be as a totally mint, completely stock numbers car.
In the real world used car values are always about condition first and foremost. Your (Lucas) cars are gorgeous and obviously lovingly and knowledgeably maintained. In some other world maybe the #'s mean more. This really only applies to the Apex cars (GSX, Stage 1, etc.) My numbers matching GS Cal (Engine,Trans, rear, Carb, Dist,) isn't worth crap. First offer over 5k take it.
Who is someone supposed to believe, the original owner's son, or some randos on the internet who could very well be other interested bidders? That’s why it has always been the responsibility of the buyer to do due diligence. While there is way more information available today, there is an equal amount of noise. As far as we know, the new owner didn’t come here asking questions, but he certainly could have been reading – this is an open forum. Questions on authenticity – or other things – should always be welcome. But the attitudes of some leading up to and after the sale like they were personally ripped off are difficult to understand - unless the goal is to undervalue particular cars in the interest of buying it themselves. Let's face it - someone could take the wraps off a 50-mile 1971 Stage-1 and put it on BAT, and folks will still find things to "question." Every time a quality Buick sells for good money, we should embrace it and be glad some folks are still willing to invest on the Buick side of the hobby. Every Buick that goes for solid money helps us all.
I have not seen your Mustang, but I am sure it is a nice car and that each of the changes you made did increase the value as you have stated. However, you are not making an apples-to-apples comparison, as the vast majority of car people would prefer an improved car over a base model car. If you had started out with a Boss 429 Mustang and made all of the same changes, every one of those changes made would have reduced the value of your car. And that example would be closer to an apples-to-apples comparison to the car currently being discussed.
Well, you start by never believing anything you "hear" from the seller. You rely on tangible facts. In lieu of those, you either bail out or roll the dice & take your chances. Like with this awesome 1971 GS455 Stage 1 for only $80K...Who was it above that said he didn't know much about A body Buicks?
The restoration was done to that persons best ability and knowledge The car was saved.Always try your best and be honest If you are restoring a GS always gives your all.But always be honest Making a profit with a GS is almost impossible. You restore them because you have a passion for them If you are lucky you will be able to restore a GSX .But to most of us this will not happen Just enjoy the hobby Alain platinum 442 4spd A/C
I'm aware, I'm just throwing it out there that numbers matching is not the end all be all to a car's value....and as has been asked, how can the seller of the subject GS in this thread possibly prove that it is the numbers matching block? How can a potential buyer prove that it isn't? On something like this, you pretty much have to go with the seller, who has been there with the car the whole time since new, and believe what they say, not what someone who doesn't know the car and has never seen it in person might speculate. I'd believe the seller, myself, much like I'd believe a witness to a crime over someone that wasn't there and their speculation. And if it wasn't the original block, and was a restamp of a different block, why should that cut it's value as much as has been suggested? Engines blow up, especially back when these cars were ran, and ran hard, as they were meant to be. Its still a one owner SCO in fantastic shape for it's age and the age of restoration. Did it go for more than it's worth? Apparently not, if you're of the belief that a car is worth what someone will pay for it. It wasn't worth it to you, and I get it (I watched the whole auction each day but didn't comment at all)....Not everyone is out to get us. Not everyone is out to screw someone over. And I'm glad I live without that fear rolling through my mind whenever I look at a car. Be careful, sure, but sometimes if you can't prove something one way or the other, you go with what the owner says, especially if that owner has been with the subject car since it was brand new.
They made, what, 846 GSX's during all three years. Eight hundred - forty - six. I have a much better chance at buying a L39 Albatross and spending my pre-golden years just logging flight hours...
How about; Every SOLID Buick that goes for money helps us all. Emphasis on the quality of the Buick rather than the amount of money spent. If not, then every paint-by-number Mona Lisa will sell for millions...
I won't blow them up and leave them as small as not to sidetrack this thread with big pics of cars it has nothing to do with, but here my pile is. Now, I tell you that it's got larger Ferrea 2.25/1.76 valves in the C9 heads that I ported, and it's a 552" stroker and custom cam with .591/.613 lift and 296/308 duration and a custom stall converter in the C6 I built myself, but how are you to tell that it has any of that if I'm trying to sell it to you? Hopefully you believe me because I've owned the car for 32 years and built it myself....
My 2cents a high quality GS restoration tells a lot about the person or team that restored it. You always put your heart in that resto Alain 442 4spd A/C
It's simple, my friend. Keep receipts and a logbook. When you document your high priced machinist ported your heads, thats on the reputation of the machine shop - that has value. When you document you ported your heads in your home garage or back yard - that has less value. See a trend happening? Is that your real pic?
