My comment is I am going to check some axle tube codes soon. Thanks for the info Brian! Will be looking at a couple 70 W30 converts in near future--believe one is original non ac so not much help in the AC info department on that one.
Let me know what you find about the 3.42 gears, Patton. I'll never say "never," even though Dave H has gone on record saying that the Lansing plant never made mistakes. :Brow: While you're looking at automatic 1970 W-30s, could you please acquire some data for me? Copy down the stampings on the "OW" tranny tags, along with the car's VIN and Fisher build date. Also note whether or not the tranny is known to be original, thought to be so, or known to be replaced. Obviously the VIN stamp on the tranny would help. I've been trying for years to make a correlation between "OW" tranny serial numbers and build dates of W-30s, but I am having a devil of a time getting much data. There just aren't that many of these cars around, and many of them have had the tranny replaced. Thanks for any help you can provide. (And yes, I'm still on the look-out for W-27 data for you.)
Brian --will do. For some reason I am thinking my W30 is a 3.42 car (been a while since I have messed with it :ball: ) I will check it out as well as the trans info as it has the original trans, etc in it. The other cars I will be able to look at over the next few weeks (although one is a 4 speed so that one won't help much). I did pop open the trunk the other day to check the stamping code on the original spare---sure enough..it's an "XT" wheel. Thanks again.
I owned two original 70 W-30 converts back in the 80's and a friend owned 2 72 W-30 Coverts one of withch he still has. None had Ac if that says anything.
My friend Brian Horne had a '69 W-30 convertible with AC and it was a 4-speed. I wonder why they didn't allow it in '70..... Patton, I love the A/c in my Stage 1...when it's time to race, I just turn it off :Brow: Dan
Interesting comments considering there is no absolute information. As quite a coincidence a car in Hemmings(current issue) just sold that is a factory air rag. The owner told me that ii is documented with a braodcast sheet. Rare cars still show up in Hemmings! It didn't take long to sell either. Thanks for your comments. I really liked the wild a$$ speculation. That is more fun than facts. Phil
Phil the information I posted came from an Original Order Brochure from Olds in 1970. As you know if you had the $$ and knew the right people you could get options added that were not offered to the general public. The Build sheet will be the true test of what the car is. As my Canadians friends say " It is what it Is" John
Before GM consolidated the indivdual service parts into one central organization, (Why can't we all just get along, now hold hands and sing "Koom Ba-Ya"?) each division not only conrolled the supply, warehousing, and inventory levels of the service parts, but what was serviceable, too. The service parts were the same as what was put on the cars on the assembly line, not aftermarket replacements like today, where one size fits all, made in China). That all went away in the early 70's when they formed GM Assembly Division and GM parts division and centralized a lot of the operations in Mother General. One of the many things that fell by the wayside was the dealer installed assembly "kits" to add to their cars in inventory to satisfy the customers who didn't want to wait 6-10 weeks for their car to be built. Things like remote mirrors, rear window defoggers (blower type), power antennas, bumper guards, all kinds of wheel/wheel cover options and of course audio systems. The kits used exactly the same parts that the car could have been built with originally and included full directions, wiring harnesses, clips, and templates to cut holes for switches, etc. Many dealers installed this stuff on "stock" cars and didn't necessarily inform the customers about that. Didn't really matter since the parts were the same and the mechanics were the best (still are). GM, in all its wisdom, trashed most of that in the sake of cost and complexity reductions (but really was more empire building and centralization of power) and a lot of the decisions as to what to service in the way of add-ons went away. Olds scrapped truckloads of these kits and removed their availability from the parts manuals. They also replaced the OEM parts with "suitable replacements" wherever possible, and that typically meant use the Chevrolet part if it would interchange, because it was always cheaper and they could buy in larger volumes. My Ramrod has a power antenna, wood steering wheel, Rallye Pak, and remote mirror from those scrapped kits. Some were sent through our employee salvage sales and they'd sell them for $1-$5. Great employee benefit that was abused and eliminated when a few people got a little greedy...as usual. Unfortunately the dealers got more greedy and started ordering cars without A/C, radios, speed control, etc. and adding cheap components. Unfortunately they charged the customers the sameas the MSRP. We used to see a lot of that crap come back in warranty replacements as if the car was built that way. The only way you could know how that car was built on the assembly line was to find the complete set of build sheets (Fisher Body and Car division Oldsmobile/Pont/Buick) from the factory and the original window sticker put on the car at the end of the line. Highly doubtful those would be left in the cars if the cars had been "altered" later. Dealers also put in things not available in production (4.66 and 5.00 gears in Olds 12 bolts for example), and others such as the L69 and W30 trak pack kits on the 66 and 67 442's. I'm sure other makes and brands were the same. or similar.
Just so the original poster here is clear----70 W30 Autos(all body styles) were available with AC installed at the factory. :3gears:
OOPS, sorry. Thought I was on ROP, got carried away. Here's something to amuse you if i wasted everyone's time with the above. www.steelcitysfinest.com/HondaAccordAd.htm Hahahaha :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
No Dave!! Don't ever worry about getting offthread, onthread or middlethread as your stories and info are some of the best info I ever read. This thing was going everywhere and I was hoping the original poster would get back in here and tell us some more about his find....I hate it when they dangle that "found another W30" bait in front of us and don't give any more color!
I have read that it was because of the lumpy camshaft that the 4-speeds had. Also W-30's with A/C came with 3.23 gears where without was 3.42 posi was standard with others optional.
Actually, I'm looking forward to the day Dave H becomes senile and his ramblings get even more carried away. I'm sure there's all sorts of stories in his brain, being held back by better judgement. :laugh: I'd sure like to see some documentation for that car. I won't claim to be an expert on '69, but I thought the only way to get A/C on a '69 W-30 was to actually order the W-32 (which was an automatic). I'm almost positive you couldn't get A/C on the 4-speed W-30 anyway, just like in '70. Of course, like Dave said, maybe the dealer installed the A/C. There's a page in the Assembly Manual telling you exactly how to do that -- what parts to add, what to swap out.
pglade, The car I posted about is Matador Red with white top and interior. It's a loaded car but the only options that can be proved are W-30,C-60 and U-57. I don't have a regular build sheet, only the body card or what ever it's called. The O-W is original to the car. I'm a little surprised that it doesn't show U-80. It would seem that a car with a tape player would have rear seat speakers. My other W-30 rag is Agean Aqua with white on white and 4spd. That car is documented by GM of Canada. I found the red car in California about 2 years ago and only recently purchased the aqua car. Phil
Aegean Auqua!! :laugh: Man, that has got to be a great looking car! Ever since I saw the 70 W30 Aegean Aqua hardtop restored and owned by the guy in Michigan (at the last Lansing Nats)...Bill? Selzik, Szelig, or something like that(the guy that looks like Roger Penske), is his last name---he works or worked at GM---I have really liked that color. My W30 is just a plain 'ole white/black(post coupe). Thanks for the info. Oh yeah--thanks for rubbing it in a little more...."4 speed" on top of all that. :3gears:
Hey Patton, I think I know which car you are talking about. It has a twin W-31 car parked along side. The name totally escapes me. I saw them at the Cenntenial and the 105th. Talk about drool factor! :eek2: Seats two, Have fun with those two! I am guessing you have more cars in your stable, but it shows that you have real class with those two Olds! :bglasses: :laugh:
Rusty - "Roger Penske" also had the W30 @Minneapolis----you saying there is a matching W31 to that car?? Too much! :TU: Thanks
Brian: I can assure you, you'll be the last to know, smart ass. :beer Rusty/Patton: Bill Szelag's car is not the one you're thinking of at the Centennial. It's even nicer. Bill is an absolute gem of a person and yes, still works for GM in the Service area. He also has a gorgeous dark blue 70 Supreme Convertible that was at every Nats before the W30 HT was done. You'll never meet a nicer person. Very influential in the Motor City Rockets and arranged a special showing of what's left of the Oldsmobile colleection of the old cars they preserved. Most are long gone. Not sure where. (What the heck, they're old) There was a guy in Western Michigan (Brian's country, but don't hold that against him) that had twin 1970 W cars, well almost, one was a W31, one was a W30. Both were Aegean Aqua and often were shown together. i saw them last at Martin at an NSCA race in the car show area in the early nineties. Not sure where they ended up, though I heard one or both were sold. Maybe one of our younger experts can fill in the details.
While some of you Olds guys are gathered in one thread I have a question. I have a dash pad for a 70-72 Cutlass that I don't know what it fits. I have 3 different ones. One is from an air car with the center vents along with 2 on the sides. Another is for a non-air car with the fake center vents along with the 2 side vents that are real. The last is a pad with no vents at all. The one with no vents is confusing me. We have 2 non air cars that have the outside vents for the cowl vents to flow through. What car would have been ordered with a pad with no vents at all? Didn't it have the vents in the kick panels either?
John, I think that one with no vents is from a 77 series car (2 door sport coupe, or "post car") without A/C. They had vent windows and push pull vents down below in the kick panels only. Casey has one, maybe he can concur.
