ok guys, i've done searches all over this board about buick setups for handling....i plan on getting the TVS setup from Hotchkis (its 1400 bucks respectively) and buy some good 17's with either bfg tires or some kuhmo tires for better grip than my 14's can give...so my question is... will i need to do anything to the oiling system to make sure the engine doesn't start starving for oil or should i worry with upgrading the fuel system either? i've got a stock rebuilt 455 in the car right now, the only mods are dual electric fans and a k/n filter i would like to start taking the car to road courses as soon as i find some....i'm also going to upgrade to a currie 9+ rear end so i won't have to worry with my wonderful 2.56 gearing in the car right now.... ohh has anyone tried the TVS on any car and if so how did you guys like it? thanks guys daniel duncan
You will definitely need some kind of baffled oil pan, I am still running all the stock suspension with a fairly stock rebuilt 455 that makes normally very good oil pressure, and when I take turns hard or brake hard it loses oil pressure. I am interested to hear how your car performs with the Hotchkiss setup. I have a set of Global West tubular upper A-arms that need installed and down the road I would like to upgrade the front with their tubular lower control arms and coil-over conversion. I've heard the tubular A-arms make a huge improvement in handling by themselves, supposedly just this mod will make one handle similar to a 4th Gen F-body with an even better ride.
i would love to get the tubular setup from global west and one day i plan on upgrading all my suspension that i can to get a buick that handles in a class by itself, but right now my 30+ year old springs are really needing to be replaced and the TVS has springs and a most of the other stuff that i need to start out with... i was planning on getting the new oil pump setup with timing cover from T/A so i might as well put the new oil pan on that list too.... think there would be any need for better fuel? no starvation in the twisties? thanks guys daniel duncan
In my opinion the Hotchkis kit will not result in a big improvement in handling. In fact at the limits it will probably go into suspension bind resulting in snap oversteer (see the results of Car Craft's 65 Chevy with Hotchkis.) Here are the problems (again my opinion for what its worth) One: Does not address the poor stock front end geometry. With stock A-Arms you have positive camber (top tilts out) and it gets worse as the suspension is loaded. Also you have 0 to 1 degrees of caster available, would like to have 5 or more especially with wide low profile rubber. Two: Poly bushing in the rear end. Will bind up in the turns. When a suspension binds up the handling will go away right now. At the rear end you need the control arms to articulate. Stock this is done with rubber bushings. The better solution is spherical joints at the frame. There are some problems with this because common spherical joints (heim) are very harsh and noisy. Fine in a race car but not great on the street. At this time two companies have rear control arms with a poly cushioned spherical joint on the rear control arms, Currie and Edelbrock (this is new for Edelbrock lowers.) Both should work well. I think Wolfcraft has some spherical bushings that can be put into stock control arms. I think you would be happy with the Hotchkis for drag racing or cruising but not for autocross.
doug, do you think it would be a good starting point to later upgrade with with front tubular suspension? i was planning on buying a currie rear end anyways just because i needed something new out back, i've went through the stock 2.56 gears and just happen to have a parts car (also 72) with the same 2.56 gear in it and swapped them out... thanks for the feed back...gives me things to think on... daniel duncan
stock front arms are a pain in a lowered car. normally when you lower a car, you'll aquire extra negative camber...with our cars, it just give you even more on the positive side. i'll going to need a mega pack of shims to get my front end squared up with hotchkis 1" lowering springs. iirc an fbody spindle swap helps this, though, doesn't it?
Daniel, I think with the kit you are paying for the rear control arms that are not very good compared to the Currie or Edelbrock What you need to do is develop a plan of where you want to go and your biggest needs. In my case I did the front end first because I had drum brakes and broken springs. Then took my time to collect parts for the rear end. Save the easy stuff for last. On mine I put on cheap Autozone shocks until I can get the ones I want. Stayed with the stock sway bar and then got a great deal at a swap meet for a new Helwig (1 3/16) bar. I would not put lowering springs in especially if you are going to go with tall spindles later. Together you will be 2" lower. Not good with headers. If you can afford a Currie rear end I would see if they will deal on their control arms. I really like Curries' stuff. There Jonnie-Joint is far better than anyone elses. I think that the Edelbrock stuff is built by Currie or they sell them the spherical joint. Hope this helps.
thanks for that info doug, i thought about going piece by piece too..but i get carried away sometimes....like lets say i want bigger tires for better grip...but later down the road i really want bigger disc up front with a b-body spindle swap, will that or the new disc change my backspacing or anything else to make me need to swap after i do that swap? also i've read that when going to tubular a-arms that i would need to get the fast ratio steering box....how woudl that work if i got that earlier? oh if you don't recommend lowering springs with headers...what type of spring would you go for...stock springs aren't that high with tension and would give too much body roll...and i haven't seen any springs that are stock height but are good for cornering... also would shorty headers fix the problem above? the most i read about A-body suspension was on chevelle stuff...and he used a lot of Hotchkis stuff.....you seen it? it was the 1970 Redline Chevelle...some chevy mag put it out.... thanks for all the help so far, really helping me focus on what i want...buick that can handle, stop, and go with any newer car... daniel duncan
I would also agree to not get lowering springs. My brother has Eibach springs on his Buick and HATES them. They are just way too low for street use, he hits his headers and even his oil pan on small bumps. I think Global West sells a stock height spring set up for good cornering, you may want to contact them and see what they say. I have an article on my home PC about the optimum setup for our Buicks, I'll try to find the file and post it here if I can find it.
I have recently installed the Global West tubular upper and lowers with their springs and koni shocks. The car handles excellently but I had some serious problems with getting the car to allign. There are no shims on the drivers side and I have -0.8 camber and +5.8 caster. On the passenger side I have -1.0 camber and +5.1 caster with a lot of shims in the back side. The specs from Global West are -.5 camber on both sides with +4.5 on drivers side and +5.0 on passengers side. These numbers are close enough to spec according to Global West. My only option to complete fix this issue is to move the A Arm supports out. This would include cutting them off and rewelding them. Something I do not plan to do. To my knowledge there are no drop spindles for a GM B Body. Global West uses the B Body spindle in their negative roll system. So if you want to lower your car more then 1 1/2" that Global West lowers the car you will have to find another way. I have autocrossed the car twice and it has very little body roll. The car handles very well. My next step is to install the quick ratio steering box. Mark
Dan Just some background on what I have so far and how it works. GW s-48 springs, B-body spindles and 11 inch rotors, GW gen 2 upper control arms with rubber bushings, Hellwig 1 3/16 bar stock 15X7 Buick rims 245 60 Goodyear Eagles (yellow letter looks great with this car) cheap shocks, new Steering system (not necessary but can be done cheap if you scrounge) Late 90's Jeep Grand Cherekee, metric hoses from a Trans Am and the springs and valves from the Trans Am power steering pump. This setup is about 1 to 1 1\2 lower than stock. Also I think the offset is about 3\8 wider on each side. Ride and handling is very good. In fact ride is too good in my opinion. Could easily handle next spring stiffness. Do get some scrapes on TA headers on rough roads. Also getting some deflection from rubber bushings. May want to go with something stiffer some day. At this point the front end really needs shocks to match the rest of the components. Will probable go with coil overs and QA1's when I get the money. This way I can play with ride height. But I can live without for now. Rear end" 12 bolt chevy stock springs AFCO race shocks stock bar Edelbrock upper adjustable control arms with spherical joint at frame. Currie lower arms with spherical at frame. stock 15X7 wheels with 275 60 Goodyears I love the rear end setup! The only addition in the future will be the new swaybar setup (HRpartsNstuff)
Mark, Seems kind of funny but I have no shims on the drivers side either. Lucked out though and have -.5 camber and 6 degrees caster which is what I wanted. I would not have that big a problem relocating the the upper supports if needed, we do it all the time on oval track cars (often against the rules but just about impossible to detect.) These old frames are just not that exact. Have watched what you have done with great interest. I think your 17 inch tire/wheel setup is probably a big improvement. Thinking about setting up a set of stock car 16 inchers with Hoosier road race tires and see what would happen. Won't be this year have too much engine and transmission work. Check out the Jeep box. I have all of $75 bucks into it.
I am also thinking of going to 17"x 9.5" wheels either all around or only in the front then getting 18" x10" wheels for the back. Still going to stay with TTII's or Boyd Codington Blasters. I like them both. I have been looking for a B Body drop spindle to get the car lower to the ground but have not found one. Shorter springs takes the allignement totally out of spec. I have a Currie Ford 9" rear with 12" disc I need to put under the back. Hope to get that done this winter. At some point I hope to do an engine and trans upgrade also. I really want to make this thing handle and perform. The other thing I found out is that if you set the Koni shocks to the max stiffness they have very slow rebound and when you get on the road the suspension compresses and then does not return. This is great for racing but is not as good on the street. Mark
wow i envy both of you guys so much...i just started getting a good grasp on the engine and how it all works and then you start throwing all this camber stuff and....keep it coming!:grin: i think once i get some more funds put away i'll just call global west up and see about a really good street setup from them that wouldn't be scared to go to a track either, i'm glad to hear that buicks can be made to go in the corners as well as the straights, i've always loved g-machines and think a big buick hanging with mustangs in the curves and then busting them out on the straights would just be awesome...i've been looking at getting a ROH RT wheel combo for mine when i start building up the suspension and thought about doing 18x8's up frong with 18x10's out back, but i've heard a lot of good about going with 17's because there is enough sidewall to give a little and gain better grip. thanks guys...you are making me love buick all the more! daniel duncan
Insane Buick Check out these two links. GSX Autocrossing at Bristol Pictures of Suspenion on GSX Mark
