B-J auction on Speed-or why I should have bought....

I should have bought a 1969 Camaro thirteen years ago instead of a 1969 Dodge. Watching bits-and-pieces of the B-J auctions, is it me, or does it seem like every 1969 Camaro RS/SS/Z-28 EVER MADE is for sale at that auction??

Every time I cruise thru the channel, I see ANOTHER flippin' 69 Camaro (or a Mustang GT-350) on the block. FOR $70,000-$80,000!!!!!!!!!!!!! AM I missing something, or did that year Camaro all of a sudden get super high in value, while the rest of the market got ~soft~??? Didn't Chevy make something like 230,000 Camaros that year (and it seems like everyone of those 230,000 are going across the block)?? That price can't possibly reflect that "rarity" of the brand. So what is it?? o No: o No: Is it because they brought back the new (and ugly) Camaro so everyone has to dump the old to make room in the garage for a new Camaro?? I just don't get it.

 

Anybody have a link to the auction results? I heard a 1971 442 W30 convertible went for $202k? Anybody know what that 61 Pontiac convertible went for?

 

I hear you Frank. Seems there is WAY more 69 Z's for sale then where made??? I think I seen one sell for over 130,000. Crazy for sure. Anyways the 70 Z is way better .

 

I think it was the silver 70 4 speed w-30 that brought that. The 70 auto aqua car brought $145k hammer price. The green 71 had a hammer price of $77k, which was about the same as the 71 non w-30 4 speed.

61 convertible had a hammer price of $75k.

If you go to the BJ website for the car list and click on the car you want to see it will show you the price including the 10% commission paid by the buyer.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NO-R...ewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item35a67a4016

 

Frank, what are you complaining about? Where were you when Hemi transplants began to make a 318 Barracuda convertible worth 50 grand more?

Plus, how many times have you been to the race? One of the things that's great about it is that many Brand X people have learned about Brand Y, so you should know that not all Camaros are created equal . . . plus it's simply [(supply x demand) + booze].

 

No complaints, but I am aware of what is going on Diego. I'm not that simple minded. Don't forget the "I have to show the size of my wallet" syndrome.

I know that only 12 1971 Hemi "Cuda convertibles were built, yet, it ~seems~ like at least 20 come up for auction every year.uzzled: uzzled:

 

Living in Kansas, and watching the B-J auction, all I could think of was "Mustangs, Camaros and 'Vettes, Oh My!!" I could NOT believe there were that many of nearly the SAME cars! Oh, and the "1 of 1, owned it since bought new, original survivor, never been in a body shop, ultra rare optioned (fill in the name of the car here)" made me SICK! If I got a nickel for every exaggerated claim I heard during that auction, I could've brought home a trailer full of those cars.

 

You are just seeing the marketplace react to what sells best a BJ generally speaking.

Anybody notice that on Sunday a 67 blue GTX Hemi convertble, no less, brought only 47K?. What a deal and especially relative to 3 years ago. I know that seller had to be revived after the hammer fell that low on the price scale.

 

And the 69 COPO Camaro with GM Canada docs, RS option w/endura front bumper for $122,000. There couldn't have been more than a handfull optioned that way. Three years ago it would have brought 1/4 million.

Then the endless parade of tributes....um...clones...um...OK call them what they are, FAKES that hammer at 100k+. I just have to think most bidders at BJ just don't appreciate what a truely rare car represents.

 

Careful of the GM of Canada documentation. It used to be beyond scrutiny, butI just came across the first bogus one on a 68 Ramrod convertible. We did build one convertible that I'm sure of, but don't recall hearing of any more. It was one of the first 50 built for engineering test, promo and display, magazine write-ups, but mostly dealer sponsored race cars, that were heavily factory backed on the Q.T. The one convertible I drove was a demo car that sat in a showroom at Oldsmobile.

The GM of Canada paperwork had 2 things that jumped out at me right away:

The term "W Machine" was used on it to describe thet W31 option...That term was first used on the "Dr. Oldsmobile" program a year after this car was built. OOPS.

Also listed a 3.73 posi rear for the G88 option. Olds didn't have a 3.73 posi, but Chevy did. GM of canada put Chev 12 bolts in the performance axle options. No Ramrods were built in Canada, all in Lansing. Another OOPS.

Up to this point I assumed that a car was legit if it had the Canadian paperwork when it was first imported into Canada.

Once again, nice car, love to have it, but not a real one that will eventually bring a real one price. Somebody will get burned....or already has...

 

Was this the orange car with poverty caps?

 

This was the Fathom Green 4-spd car, with rally wheels. Lot #1321

 

Good catches, Dave. I wonder if Law Enforcement has any interest in going after shysters like this, or if they're content just sitting at the side of the road writing speeding tickets.

 

Frank, I was just bustin' yer chops. :bla: :beer

I've got a scenario I'd like to pose and see what you think:

The GM of Canada docs - the actual ones - probably are just sheets with codes, right?

So someone had to list the codes on a spreadsheet and add a description to each code, right?

So the term "W-Machine" relied on input from a GM of Canada lackey who simply entered the wrong terminology, perhaps due to the fact that the W-31 option was available for 3 years, right?

So, possibly, the documents were not fake, perhaps?

Of course, you mentioned the 3.73 item, which truly could be a glaring error compliments of the purported perpetrator, but I am not so sure the W-Machine description would automatically render the docs suspicious. :idea2:

 

Eh???????Show me an undoctored sheet and I'll agree. Can't be authentic if it's been altered can it?

Not saying that car is bogus, but seeing things like that sure would raise my suspicions about it.

 

I tried finding the thread on ROP and no such luck.

But this is what happened: Someone posted their GM of Canada docs, and it showed their car to have Ebony Black stripes.

But if you look at THIS page in Auto Color Library, you'll see that black stripes had a different paint code than Ebony Black.

So why was that listed on the GM of Canada docs?

Clearly there's an issue of how someone translated the code into a proper name in the documents they send to the customer.

In other words, perhaps calling a 1968 a W-Machine is not necessarily pointing out the documents are fake but, rather, whatever spreadsheet or program they use to give option codes proper names has the wrong terminology listed. I definitely can see them have something like "W31 = W-Machine" without acknowledgement that it's not the proper name for the package in 1968.

 

You're mellowing....:laugh: :laugh:

See PM...:bglasses: (unlike some others, give me a minute to write it up....)

 

Arguably the steal of the auction. That car wasn't in the catalog, and was buried online, but the main knock against it was the seller failed to update the GM of Canada documents, which listed the owner as an individual who'd allegedly burnt some folks on bogus cars on some in the past. It turns out this particular car was a good car with no issues, but the previous owner's name scared off any potential buyers who weren't gonna take a chance without doing some digging...

 

Dave, don't get me wrong - I'm a skeptic of W-31 ragtops from 1968. I'm just saying the description may be the fault of the current office (not pointing fingers at Zapora, but someone who worked in his office).