Hi - I'm gathering parts and thoughts/opinions for a street rod project. I've got a 1940 Buick Special (4 doors) for the basics. I found a 1984 Regal Limited with the 4.1 V6 and 200-4R tranny that I want to use as a donor for the modern suspension, brakes, OD tranny, etc. The track width is identical, the wheelbase on the Regal is about 12" shorter so there will be frame mods no matter what. From an initial look the Regal frame is a lot wider and lower - it flares out to the side of the body, while the Special frame runs straight back after leaving the front wheels. I could use just the front section of the Regal frame, but there are other options. Interestingly enough, the Regal frame is almost entirely below the centerline of the wheels, the Special frame is almost entirely above. If I rework the Regal frame to stay inside it would lower the Special nicely, about a 6" drop. It looks like I could also choose to use the Regal frame as a platform and use the body mount section of the Special frame on top of that, still retain the original ride height, might look a little goofy, though. These types of decisions will probably wait until both bodies are off the frames, but if anyone has any experience that might apply I'd love to hear about it. I'd like to get a Buick V8 into the car as well. What I'd appreciate are opinions on the different V8's that would serve well for this application, newer models vs older ones, what years are best bet, reasonable for parts, etc. I'm looking for a reliable cruiser with some pizzaz (is that a word?) more so than something to smoke the tires at the drop of a hat. Cool factor will have a bearing, but I don't know if I can find and live with a Nailhead right out of the gate. I've looked through a number of the threads here, it would seem that the 350 is the most straight-forward swap, but the 455 isn't a bad option either and is relatively workable. Are there any compatibility issues with the 200-4R with one vs the other? I was looking at Poston's website for the 455 motor mounts, didn't find them with some limited searching, are they the recommended method for getting a 455 bolted in? I don't think I've got crossmember issues for dual ehaust as the crossmembers will be reworked for the '40 body anyway. Again, I'd love to hear suggestions on engines (size and years to look for or avoid) that would be worth the effort to build in here. All opinions are appreciated!
If your going to be serious with this street rod in regards to power on a Regal chasis, there are two options; 455 or turbo 6. I've never seen a street rod with a turbo, so you can forge ahead on new ground if you like, but the 455 will give you the torque of no other motor. That's why I will always love that motor. The 401 nailhead will not fit on a Regal chasis without mods to the chassis. I'd say don't mess with it, but it can be done and is definitely "old school." What do you want, speed awesome sound effects from a turbo or good ole brute torque from a 455? BTW the optimum year for the 455 is 1970 and for the 231 V6 turbo it is 1986 & 1987.
The 200-4R will bolt up to the 455 with no problem. TA performance sells the correct 455 frame mounts. Motor mounts is a different question......depending on the year and make of the car which the 455 came from. I get these motor mounts confused. Eggs or Leviathan should be able to help. You will have to mach up the motor as the frame mounts are not a direct bolt in on the Regal frame. BTW: save that 4.1. They are very desirable to the turbo guys for the steel crank. Exact same part # as a turbo 6 crank, and many turbo guys will turbo a 4.1. :3gears:
Just another opinion here. But why not a 350" Buick. They're still cheap. No motor mount changes or any of that needed. It makes decent power even, with just a little cam and comp. and you will still be able to drive it and get some resemblance of milage. If the front of the tube car wasn't in a bazillion piece in the back garage, the 455" would be coming outa the 64' and tossed in the "to core" pile. While getting a 10-1 comp. 350" ready for the install. I firmly think that Rob M. and Bill m. have shown the world that 350's are some tough little brutes.
One vote for the 455. It will bolt up to the 200, but you'll want to update the hard parts to be able to handle the torque. The pads are available (more searching is all that's needed) from Postons or TAPerformance. To drill and center the engine with the pads will be a snap if you're talking frame mode. Generally with the 455 you want a 73 or later block but 72 or earlier heads. Hope that helps, any pics???
Thanks for the opinions so far! I appreciate the feedback. I'm still weighing pro's and con's of the 350 vs 455 if anyone else wants to chime in (I'm more comfortable with normally aspirated engines than turbo's, will probably have an easier time both finding and living with the non-turbo engine). It seems like the 350 would be an easier install, perhaps a bit cheaper, and can still move me nicely with some work. I still like the idea of the big block with all the cubes, appreciate the heads up on 73 or later block, and earlier heads. It might come down to what I can lay my hands on more easily in this area, I've got my feelers out for both. What prices would you expect to pay for a good rebuildable 350 vs one that is ready to run well now (rebuilt or at least with relatively low miles), and the same thing on rebuildable 455 vs one that is ready to run? Again, thanks for the help!
You want to get Joe Taubitz (The Old Guy) to tell you what he did to his 37 Special. You cannot believe how good his drives.
For prices on both, i suggest looking though the Parts for Sale forum of the board. You'll usually get a good cross-section of high and low sellers...just take the average.
regal swap a 455 is not a direct bolt in. i have an 83 and 82 with 455 engines and poston or ta mount do not line up right without drilling new holes. the 83 i used 72 electra stell mounts and crossed them(left on right)and the top bolt holes line up them we welded it up anyways. i do have a 350 in a 79 regal. bolts in but the v6 motor mounts are really soft i used turbo polymounts from conelys perfromance. rock solid and rebuildable 300/340 should be same too and has aluminumheads (315 lbs) might be lighter than you v6.all will work with your trans boltpattern good luck :TU: andy
Found a 455, have it in the garage! Just came home with a 455, was in a shed 6 miles from my house. Had been sitting for several years ("running when pulled" - haven't we all heard that before?), may be locked up, but it is complete from air cleaner to oil pan and included the TH400 tranny still bolted up (which I don't expect to use), got it for $150. It will give me something to work with on the side during the undoubtedly long time that I'm working with the body and frame mods. At some point I'll probably be starting a thread on how best to proceed with the teardown and rebuild (and I know there is a ton in the archives, may not need a separate thread at all), but in the mean time thanks for the help and engines offered.
That's good news. Nothing like a big block Buick 455. That is the perfect enigne for a street rod! So what year of motor is it? :bglasses:
Stock build vs HP Good question! I'm not sure which way I'll go - partly it will depend on the condition of the engine when I open it up (and that might be a while, lots else going on these days), and the condition of my wallet at the time. Since this is a '76 engine it isn't the first choice for high horsepower. I do want a fun cruiser with solid responsiveness to the throttle, but if things look good during the inspection I would be inclined to freshen it up as mostly stock and get some miles and enjoyment out of it, save my money for interior, paint, tunes, etc. - with a 65 year old body on the car there will be plenty that needs some atterntion even though it is amazingly solid as it sits. Down the road I would get back in for some changes to bring the performance level up. On the other hand, if I open it up and see it needs some major attention right away I'd be more inclined to making those changes up front. While I'm waiting are there any parts I should keep my eyes open besides earlier heads? I did send off for the Poston's catalogs, I always enjoy just daydreaming about some of what can be done! Here is a real Buick newbie question - what does Stage 1 refer to in the descriptions of engines and parts? Differences with standard or later "Stages"? I enjoy learning more as I go, it is part of the fun of getting under the hood of something different. I'm in awe of some of the hard-core Buick knowledge I see shared on this board. I've also got a 1967 Olds Delmont 88 (425, soon to be an Olds 455 there too), a 1965 Ford Galaxie convertible, and a 1979 Postal Jeep with a 350 Chevy that I use on a mail route as a substitute carrier. I'm learning a little about a lot along the way!
The stage 1 was buick's top of the line motor mods from the factory back in the days. The '70 Stage 1 heads and motors were the A+++ in performance out of all the years of the stage 1 motors, and all stage motors put up major numbers. The thing that makes a stage 1 motor a stage 1 motor is of course the heads. :Brow: And about the '76 455 motor-the blocks are not the strongest, but since they are low compression, you can still make some impressive numbers. Allowing those low comp. motors to breathe is one of the most efficient ways to make power, add some headers through some perf. muffs and right there you will see a better response on both top and bottom end and will help the motor greatly. Tri Shielf perf, TA, Poston, and P.A.E. Enterprises all have good selections on their web-sites for buicks for perf. parts. Take a look at all of them if you like, they all have good buick perf. parts. P.S. sounds like you have a good collection of classics, cool! :3gears: :Comp:
The 76 block is fine. It has all the oiling mods done at the factory. The heads and pistons are another story. Find a set of 72 or earlier heads and look for a good set of pistons. Drop a torque cam in and you will be all set. You are not going to be building a light car so go for the torque. Would probably use the 400 trans also and get it converted to switch pitch.
Are there different quality / performance heads to consider in the 72 and earlier range, some casting #'s to look for or avoid? As for the TH400, I haven't taken a close look at the rear end in the '84 Regal to know what gears its got, or whether the guys who put 455's in their Regals usually live with the original rear end and a beefed up 200-4R tranny, I'm hoping that will be ok and get me started. Then I know I've got standard brake parts, proportioning valve, etc., part of why I want to use as much of the Regal donor as possible. From what I've seen the 200-4R has good initial gearing and a nice overdrive, a good deal for a cruiser that will probably drink more than its fair share of gas no matter what. That would seem preferable to the TH400, and I plan on using the tilt column from the Regal so the linkage and tranny indicator should tie in correctly to the Regal tranny. Since it will probably be quite a while before I'm working on the engine I can just keep tabs on the Parts for Sale board and see what comes up if I know some particulars to look for. Again, thanks to all who are chiming in on this, it is nice to get the benefit of so much knowledge. :TU:
:Smarty: you could use any heads you like but most people want 74 and down heads for the smaller combustion chamber. 75-76 heads will bring down compression ratio. smallest chambers are stage one heads as the larger valves take up more room.ta performance and bulldog make aluminum head but are pricy. also some earlier motors had steel shim headgaskets which where .020 thick and felpro and other gaskets are .043 thick . steel shim gaskets helped raise compresion too. you will make plenty of power but the 2004r will need to be beefed to handle it. it was not the strongest trans .rear end wont hold up long with some big power infront of it.there are better axles ,posi carriers,rearend girdles. but if you want to run it hard or race it,the money would be better spend on a 8.5 from a gn/ttype,i went with a 12bolt from a chevelle with southside lift bars made to fit earlygm(abody) to a late(gbody) offset rims(chevelle rear is wider than regal rear) moser and other places make bolt in 9 in or danas for your frame.would be plenty strong. good luck with the project. andy
...........if you don't feel like searching for good heads......you can always get TA performance aluminum heads. They come assembled right out of the box. :Brow:
