Dan, a professional appraisal (or several) of the car in it's present condition would help your case. Pictures, or a video to document the job would also be a good idea...if they'll let you....
This is the angle I would take, since it appears that you have parts stolen from your car!! I would also talk to a lawyer ASAP...you need to move quick too!!! It's possible to run into 'storage charges' (not that they deserve it). From the description of their general attitude towards your car - NO amount of money is going to get them to do the job you want!! It doesn't sound like they're capable or willing to do a quality job on your car!!!:af: :blast: I can't see any good coming from giving them another chance at this!!! If the $8500 didn't properly motivate them - nothing will!!!:rant: :rant:
Dan---see if the BBB does anything....and 1) in the meantime you need to locate the Justice of the Peace Court for both Ernie and this other dude in Buda. 2)Call them and ask them what their jurisdictional $ limit is---most of them are higher than you think as these JP's are trying to take some of the load off the higher courts. 3)Not having a written agreement may work in your favor as it MIGHT BE A PREREQUISITE to the shop getting any kind of VALID LIEN on the car---usually the law requires written invoices etc for trade people to establish legally recognizable lien rights to any property (remember--the law needs SOMETHING to "establish" these rights)--it's possible that is the case for this type work also. If you are talking with an attorney have them check the Texas Property Code (for Mechanics Liens). 4) IS THE CAR RUNNING AND/OR NEAR A DOOR? 5) Frankly, it sounds like these guys are incapable of doing the quality of work that you should expect for that kind of $$ so you are better off getting the car back instead of dragging it out and watching them botch it up more. Can you arrange to deal with Ernie and let him deal with the other place? 6)Your first goal needs to be to get the car BACK....not spend a bunch of $$$$ on an attorney and end up with an unenforceable judgment(getting the judgment will cost $$$$--then try to collect on it--well you got to pay an attorney to do that also!). Use the threat of an attorney---and a letter or phone call from one--but think long and hard before you start dishing out the dollars for a full blown lawsuit. Give me some answers. Thnx, Patton
I agree with Patton. Judgements are only as good as the paper they are written on. It will cost more in legal fees to enforce one than you might gain. :bglasses:
Dan, I had a very similar case just get wrapped up 3 months ago. I charged the guy with fraud over $5000 (a felony in Canada). The guy was convicted, and since felonies are prosecuted by the state up here, I didn't pay a dime for legal. I got my car back unfinished, without paying for the shoddy work. Press `em. It's worth it.
Sorry to hear about your problems Dan....it really sucks when you put your trust in someones hands and the screw you instead of doing the "right" thing. If this was my predicament, getting my car back ASAP would be my primary concern right now. I would hold little or no faith in either their ability to do a good job or their work ethics / business principles at this point. just the fact of them "loosing" parts is unacceptable. I would use those Lost parts' value, hugely overstated in your favor as a bargaining point to get yourt car back NOW, for example, examine the car and say its a $4,000 job they did. tell them to now subtract $1,000 for bumper and light assy.'s, etc.etc.etc. until either they mysteriously "Find" your parts or you can get your car out of the shop for a minimal amount of money, tuck tail and RUN!!! and chalk it up to a costly leason. My car sat infront of my parents house for almost 2 years while I searched and interviewed who was going to do my car. I might not have gotten the absolute best job in the end, but the guy was very good, I saw several of his finished cars, and most important to me, he was VERY local. Quite often I'd stop off on my way home from work or on a Sat. morning to check on the progress. To me, this was Very important. Its difficult to not start thinking of dirty forms of retribution for your grief but let that brew on the back burner until your car is safely in your posession.
I can feel your pain... I dropped my GS off February 2003 for quarters, fenders, and misc body work and paint. The guy swore up and down '2 months'. After 4 months, I asked him what was going on. He blew smoke up my a$$ that he was working on it, etc. Well, when I went down to look at it, nothing was started. I began to hound him. He then stopped working on it and told mutual friends that he was teaching me a lesson because I was busting his ba}}s about working on it. After waiting 10 MONTHS, I told him I was pulling it out of his shop. Within 3 weeks after my threat, the bodywork was finished. As of January 12, 2004, he has stopped work on it again as it is waiting for final primer/color/clear. The only reason I have kept it there is because no one wants to paint over someone else's bodywork. If he added the total amount of time it took to do all of the bodywork, It would only add up to 3 weeks!!! I would glady give my business to someone who is honest and stands by their word. However, it seems extremely hard to find a body shop that has ethics and morales. Because of this, I have decided to take night/ weekend classes on bodywork/fabrication/ painting so I will have self satisfaction of completing a project from start to finish. Also, I hopefully will never have to deal with the 'ethically challenged' bodyshop again. Dan- good luck. To the rest of you in similar situations, I hope for excellent results and fair dealings :3gears:
Had the same problem the first time I attempted to have my 67 done. Exact same thing farmed out to a smaller shop. Bumpers were "lost" along with both my fenders, quarters weren't hung right. Guy ended up paying for the bumpers but that was it. I'd stay on top of it, get your car back as fast as you can, take lots of pictures. Did the first guy inform you that he was going to farm the car out? Do you have before pics? After getting burned once, I shopped around for about three to four months looking for a shop that could do the work and had the time and space for the car in the shop. Hey Clint, Did he mess up the quarters?
The first idiot did yeah. May he rot in jail for all time. The second guy is going to repair a lot of the work at 1/3 his shop rate as a "freebie". It may involve new quarter skins :ball: I won't know `till March.
I'd suggest trying to find other people that have gotten *any* kind of work done there. They may have been "hushed" up with a $20 discount. 1 Person against a company...eh...1 person with 10 other people who agree with 1 person....bingo.
Sorry to hear this for you! Been down this road with paint shops too. One, my father and myself just went and got when after 1.5 years it had about 3 days worth of work done to it. No payment given either. Another one did not please me, but it still didn't after they painted it again. Fact is, for that amount of money, it should be show quality. What you described is shabby work at best. You don't lose parts that big. Someone made money from them. Talk to that lawyer fast. I wouldn't leave my car there long without action. They will never do it to your specs. Probably don't know how to. A friend of a friend sent his very rare 69 Dodge Charger to a professional in another state who built national winners. After $15K and no phone call for nerly 6 months, he drove to inspect it. Car was partially parted out and the work was shabby. Rare parts gone for ever and the body shop owner pocketed the money to buy more drugs to use. Almost a jail sentence for the Charger owner after finding this out. So, continue keeping your cool and push the case in court. Good Luck and I am sorry.
Lost parts? How in the heck do you lose 50 lbs parts??... I have 3 GS's completely dissasembled right now, and 2 more with the motor out, along with the the motor out of a Sportwagon.. And I have not lost so much as a trim screw. Even parts I know we are not going to re-use, with very few exceptions, get saved. I prolly have over 100 bins of all sizes, full of larger parts, and bags of little parts. Hundreds of bags, all labled with part name, and customer name. I don't think they "lost" any parts.. I think they sold them.. This whole story makes me want to "get a rope" for these guys, because it makes my job harder to do, and it's not the easiest business to be in, in the first place. Good luck Dan, and I agree you need to get your car out of there. ASAP I will say that it sounds like your much more forgiving them I would be.. If I walked into a shop that did a car for me, and they did really bad work, and "lost" major components.. well, they might not live to tell about it. JW
Body shops like to do the gravy jobs because they are the most profitable. On insurance jobs, some bill for new parts from GM and install used ones. I don't think they even want to work on old cars because it involves a lot of time and skills that workers either don't have or would rather not bother doing. I'll bet their own car is not done as carelessly as they do the customer's cars. That is what seperates the true craftsmen from the butchers, and you can't have a place do work for you based soley on price alone. A true craftsman charges more for the higher level of skill and devotion to his trade. Even then, it's not his own car. For what you must pay for a correctly done resto job, you could buy your own materials and equipment and learn how to do it yourself. All you need is a place to work. The equipment you will use even after the project is done and it will pay for itself in the long run. Mine did.:bglasses:
I read all these stories and the one thing that I keep reading over and over that just blows me away is how LONG these shops are keeping these cars to work on them, what the hell??.... I think most of the guys that read the V8Buick page everyday as I do have noticed that I have posted pic after pic as I have worked on my 66 over this winter, I recieved the car on 12/8/03 rode it around some for a week and then tore into it, now, all of the body panels except the body shell is painted and ready to install, the shell will be in epoxy by this week end, the motor is ready to go back in, all of my disc brake stuff is fully togther, I mean, I think I have gotten alot done and the ONLY help I have had is, well, from y'all, really!! I work on this about 4-5 days a week about 3 hours each day......If I could work 8 hours aday, 5 days a week I would be done and bored right now, there is NO excuse in keeping a job in your shop that long, total BS!! I think that one thing that happens is when some people that have jobs such as these done, the first thing they tell the shop is, "I'm not in a hurry"...then the shop pushes the car over in the corner and thats what they work on when things get slow and they need something to do. And to loose bumpers...I'd have to hit somebody over that :rant: Thats when I would grab the guys mig welder and drag it out to my truck and throw it in the bed, tell him, find my f-in bumpers and I'll bring your mig back. :moonu: :TU: .....Sorry I'm ranting but this is the kind of CRAP that makes the job that I do and enjoy doing such a pain in the rears.
This is the exact reason I am thinking about starting another body shop, only to be specializing in just paint and body /custom stuff only.................
Hi guys, I can't tell you how much I wanted to "get a little action in" but I see enough violence in my work, and it just isn't worth it. Too, I'm a medical examiner, and if I did half of what they deserve, I'd end up on the evening news, and lose my job for embarrassing my Office. I am going to call Bob tonight and tell him I want my car back with the parts by the weekend, or I am going after him in civil court, and his buddy in the criminal court. I am going to call Paul today, and give it one last try. then I'm calling the TX AG office and get the ball rolling. I think they will have enough juice to get the sheriff to help me out. Another good idea was hiring a repo man to repossess it, but that wouldn't cure the lost parts problem. I think I have done enough talking with Ernie. The fight is on. I will be more than willing to pay an attorney the 8500 to give Ernie and ulcer, and hopefully some jail time. I also want to get him exposed publicly, to save others the troubles I am having. I also plan on calling the local insurance reps down there and getting them to see what he did to my car, as an example of what he's probably doing to their customer cars. I'll post updates of my progress. As patient as I've been with the car, I am going to be in seeing this thing through to the bitter end. Dan
I just had a thought...... :Brow: If the parts are missing and they can't find them, they must have been stolen !!! No ??? Well....if they were stolen, perhaps you know a few friendly officers (from your work) you could reach out to for a favor......Like paying an unannounced visit to the shop to fill out a police report on your missing/stolen parts for your (Ahem) insurance Co. claim you need to file......o No: Alittle "leaning On" from your friends in blue might get them thinking its time to do the right thing.....for once
Dan, I totally empathize and sympathize with you. Rarely, on a resto job, will anyone EVER give you a written estimate. You almost "shouldn't" let them anyway, because if they find they are running over budget, they WILL cut corners, which you don't want. The best way, I think, to do it, is to get an "idea" from them what the cost is depending on this and depending on that, and pay them as they do the work. That way, you, or them, are not fully committed and you are "more likely" to get an honest day's work and an honest effort. I had, and am currently having "redone", my 69 done by someone in NC who did a really bad job initially. The only difference is, he himself is doing the ENTIRE car over, including the rear right quarter (seam was welded out of allignment with the wheel well molding contour), the whole paint job and vinyl roof (seams not parallel). His dopey workers didn't understand a GS any more than a friggin Dodge Aries and they screwed everything up the first time, including bondoing over the "GS" emblem holes in the quarters, fish eye everywhere, rust bubbles and moisture trapped under paint, destroying my drip rail stainless etc. How the hell can you do something like that? And Dan, in your case, them bondoing over the BUICK letter holes, well, that just blows my freakin mind. That is sheer I-Don't-Give-A-Crap attitude in a nutshell. I hate to say it, but legal action may have to be taken. It stinks, but it may be necessary. I got lucky (I guess) that he agreed my car was an abortion and he wanted to get it "right" for me. It has taken half my life, but he agreed to re-do it so I had to let him try to make it right. Good luck to you and DON'T give up! :blast: :3gears: :Smarty:
Update I tried calling Bob, the first bodyman to get a progress report, but he wasn't answering his phone today, and hasn't yet called back. I tried calling Ernie's son Paul, who seemed to actually care when I went to pick up the car. He said he doesn't want to "be a third party" and I should talk to his dad. I asked him if he was the customer service rep(as it says on the BBB listing). He said "my dad owns the business." I asked him again if he's the customer service rep, and he said, "I'm the manager of the San Marcos shop." I told him I had been waiting two days for his dad to call back, and "thanks a lot." I then went online and filled out a complaint with the TX attorney general. I got a call from a local ADA today about an unrelated case, and asked if he knew any good civil attorneys in Austin. He said" I know JUST the guy for you!"and gave me a name and number. I will call the attorney tomorrow to get things started from that end, and ask if getting the media involved is a good idea at this point. I know that sometimes the press can hurt your case if you call them too soon... I work closely with the police here in Ft. Worth and surrounding communities, and will talk to them abd see if they can offer some advice, and maybe call in a favor from their friends down in Austin. I feel good, in that at least I've shown good faith in trying to get them to do the right thing. I've also begun to get this thing rolling. I plan to keep it rolling until I get satisfaction. Dan
