Along w/ the other benefits of a Chevy rod journal..... A good crank shop will give you a nice radius at the edge of the journal for added strength. I also hear of great swap meet deals from guys that ordered the wrong rods and are willing to deal. You can look for the best buy on rods and fit them to your application,or your application to them.
Excuse my ignorance guys! I have only just discovered this by reading this post. So I can use 6.8" BBC rods? :Brow: How much is machined of the big end journals? Will the rest of the machining depend on what sort of pistons I decide to go with? Thanks Royden
But do the Wiseco's work on BBC rods? What piston does work with 6.8" rods? Or are you talking about shorter than that?
First when using a 6.8-rod it has to be planned ahead. You will off set grind the crank making it 3.950 stroke. When they do this they will side grind the crank to allow the rods to fit the crank. Yes you will have to spend a couple more dollars for a custom piston because the pin is moved up in the piston. One very nice part of that is the piston can be built a liter do to the moving of the pin
I see, so all the pistons that everyones talkin bout is not going to work with this choice. But it does have its advantages. So what would one do as far as getting a piston then? I mean who does this and how much more would this cost than SRP/JE or Wiseco and forged TA Sportman rods combo that drops right in? I understand that going this way: 1) Longer than stock rods= custom pistons, but slower piston speed 2) More expensive machinework needed on crank= lighter crank with increased stroke and wider, better bearings 3) Expensive custom pistons = but much lighter, and made to order, exact fit for MY engine. I think that going this way would definetely be great and possibly the better way, but at what cost, $wise?
Just a heads up I should know by the end of the week I think we are going to have Wiseco make a forge tru that will fit the 6.800 rod appplication. At a simalair cost to what we have now.:TU: . I will let you know as soon as I do.
The longer rod will give you a better rod to stroke ratio. We run a 7.125 long rod in are 494 in the tube chassis car. I think there was a very long discussion about the benefits or not of a long rod on this board. I can't give you proof one way or the other but we do use the long rod in most every thing.
Yeah, lets not get into long rod/short rod discussion, that's not really the intension of this thread..:boring: I'm just trying to find a piston.. Bob, drop me a note if the Wiseco/6.8" deal goes thru..:Brow: Is that still going to include the Hastings rings??:grin:
Ah... now I understand what's going on here.. I was wondering how we could be having a value/cost/performance discussion, with that long chev Rod deal, that takes $800 custom pistons. But I see the troops are being primed for a product intro.. That's cool.. When I say perf/value/cost there are a lot of considerations that go into that. Not the least of that is re-sale.. Selling "drop in" crower rods is easy.. as well as is selling SRP/JE conical dish pistons. And.. I have had several discussions lately with 494 racers, a few who have gone back to the 464 combo.. and their cars have run the same number or faster, with the 30 ci smaller motor. So just make sure your not considering this 470 ci combo to be any performance advantage. ON paper sure, but in practice.. not so much.. I also wonder if we wouild be having this discussion if Crower would sell that rod to just anyone.. JW
EXACTLY! ou: BTW, MY intensions with this thread were honest and inquisitive in nature, and purely in my own interest . That's ALL FOLKS! I did not think that this was going to start some kinda competitor war. If that's the kinda information I'm going to get here, then I'm outta here. I'm not in any kind of Buick competition past, present, or future, nor do I want to be. I just wanted some HONEST OPINIONS of where I should go with my next build. Peace, out. :gt:
Being a "buyers market"........ When you can eliminate the middle man you decrease your chance for ''headaches'' and stand to save some money.
Grant... NO problem guy... and getting different points of view, and then deciding for yourself the best course of action to suit your own needs and budget, is the best thing you can do here. What I have said in this thread has nothing to do with selling parts for anyone... it's what I do here, in the shop.. if Finishline was selling the Crower rod.. I would be buying it from Bobb/Jeff. The Eagle rod is a decent piece, and prolly plenty stout for the application, but should not be confused with the Crower piece.. Apples and Oranges there.. Gary, Yep, that would be great, if Crower really wanted to make parts for us.. but the reality is that Mike had to pester them for a long time, and buy tons of stuff from them (including this rod at 10-20 sets per run) to get them to even consider making it. That rod is the really nice peice that fits between beefed up stockers, and the billet ones, which are overkill for a 700 HP motor. Guys, There certainly is plenty going on "behind the scenes" with all the vendors, and I try my best to stay out of that battle, when it comes to parts. I am simply relating the parts and reasoning that goes into my motors here, and you can attach whatever value my opinion has on this stuff, that you feel is warranted. I'm too busy building this stuff daily, to worry about getting my feelings hurt. JW
Jim To be honest the whole new piston idea came up in a road trip TODAY. Just so that you know this we were talking about this post and I said wouldn't it be nice to have a forge true that would fit this application Jeff said I will give them a call and see if it is fez able. That is as far as it has been looked at. I don't really disagree with you on the cubes inch thing. Our 494 doesn't make any more horse than my 468 but it makes more torque. But the horsepower is at a lower RPM. I truly feel that the big hold up is heads you can only stuff so much air through a set of heads. As far as cost comparisons in my post if you look you will see that I never tried to say it was a bunch cheaper but there are some inherent advantages to the longer rod with the smaller bearing. You cannot deny that bearing speed is one of our big concerns in these engines as far as the cubes I believe I said you could tell your buddy you had 470. Not that you had 470 inches and it was faster than theirs. I do occasionally self promote but before we go there lets make sure that we all look very closely in the mirror. Because when you point a finger there are four more pointing back at you. To address the cost, a set of custom pistons we generally are less than 700 out the door to the customer. So with what I posted the other day and with that you are at 1450. For rods crank and pistons. Based on what you are promoting you are at 1384. The difference is very little in price and if we do make this Wiseco deal come through it would be around 1265 in the first offering the custom pistons are a better race piston and in the second deal it would be more apple to apples. So I hope that will help clear up any cost issues. I do hope I can bring the Wiseco deal out because I think we try to bring value to what we sell. By the way Jim I heard a rumor TA was going to Manley rods and would no longer have Crower. Is this true you seem to be in the know of these things? Is that going to change the cost of rods at all since they are not Crowers?
Luckily for me,.I don't sell parts for a living. And to relate some of my observations when it comes to building a race motor,My frustration with alot of the vendors would make me seem too "biased". I too just offer options and wish everyone luck because the people that haven't impressed me,may take good care of you. Seems like a ''crapshoot" anymore......Too bad when the amount of money gets to where I am. Grant Here is your bottom line from my point of view...... "Bolt in" parts save time but being "BUICK specific" they're more expensive than the Chevy equivalent,due to volume/demand. Sometimes you can save money and frustration if you are willing to make the "more available" parts suit your combo. Both have pro's and con's.....so weigh them,and good luck getting that car RIGHT! Seems like it has potential to go deep in the 11's and even touch the 10's with some luck. I'm done here..
Bobb.. I didn't mean to imply anything... about the piston deal.. just couldn't make the math work.. even at $700. That's what the "Now I understand" meant. Let's be careful not to attach too much meaning to statements like that.. it starts a lot of silly fights, and bad feelings.. And it should be noted.. I'm not trying to sell anything here, in relation to this thread. Yes, I am careful at pointing fingers on the self promotion deal.. I hear where your coming from. Bottom line, regardless of which way Grant goes, I won't see a dime here. I have no knowledge about any switch in manufactures by TA.. Best to talk to Mike about that. JW
and... My biggest concern with the whole bearing speed/oiling issue is adaquate oil pressure and volume supplied to the rods, especially number 3, in these higher HP applications. And my opinion on that is pretty simple. Buy a single stage Moroso oil pump, or a dry sump system, and run as much oil pressure as you can. Much more important than splitting hairs with journal sizes. 100 psi cures a lot of ills.. JW
hypertectic im not much fan of the hyper pistons either .not correct compression advertised unless deck this and that. but my 455 move good with the giant kenne bell cam. thinking of bailing on the 455 and starting over with the 70 block and heads i have.$$$$ has the last decision.:Brow: will know soon:TU: andy
