Well, I went out to the dyno shop and personally inspected this train wreck last night. The cam was off by 25*!!! The "professional" I had do the assembly used the inner dot, the one that indicates the zero position keyway, to line up the cam. A 1st year apprentice would know better than that.... I sure did and I'm a card-carrying-member of the moron club. Yup, I paid someone to "do it right". ou: ...and on the quality control sheet I always use, that the "professional" didn't want to take from me, point #3 is "check that the timing gear OUTER dot is used to install the cam straight up for degreeing". Well, the shop in question has agreed to go out and pick up the engine and re-do the work free of charge! :TU: I can't fault them for taking care of business, mistakes happen and it's only wrong if you don't clean up your own mess or make amends. I'm in a much better mood now that they've agreed to take responsibility for it. Even still, after seeing the ultra-basic mistakes listed here would YOU trust them to build an engine you're going to bet your life on? Me either. I also had a leak-down test done myself yesterday ( I asked the shop if this was done, they said yes)... It failed miserably. I think perhaps it's best to do this one myself. If I didn't have this site I'd have little hope of trying it. Thanks all!!!
Well, I've only built up a couple 455 street enignes and a SBC so far. Like a complete moron I thought that someone else would be better trained and experienced in putting together my engine. Wow, was I wrong! Maybe they are smarter and more accurate, but I doubt they care as much about it as I do. I'll measure it 15 times and go through the checklist with a fine toothed comb before I let a mistake slip through. That sure wasn't the case here! My dyno testers remark was "In 22 years I've seen a lot of poor engines, this was the worst". Anyone that tells you "readin' stuff on that there internet doesn't mean a thing" send `em my way so I can smack some sense into them. This board has more engine knowledge than 99% of the engine builders out there. Anyhow, the thing is being stripped down by the shop that did the work right now. I assume they can strip the thing without making any errors. When I get thier analysis of the probleim this evening I'll post it. Then I'll dig in myself and figure out what's REALLY wrong and build it right. When all is said and done I'll post the facts (a la Yardley) of this case as well. Maybe help someone avoid a similar problem.
I second that emotion. When I built my 464 a few years ago the locals machinists and some in Reno and SLC made comments like "Why would you want to build a Buick?", and that is was just like a Shivvy.. I RAN through the door. Guys told me I my cam choice was wrong, etc., etc.... they're STILL telling me these thing but they're also seeing nothing but my tail lights. I won't name names but there are some smart sobs out here. Next engine will be done even better and assembled by ME. Really sorry to hear your troubles Clint. Good news though.. Calgary has GREAT BEER! Neat town. Butte native.
Sorry to hear it went so badly! Finding a good engine shop has got to be one of the most difficult parts of building a car. That is, unless you want to pay an arm and a leg. We are lucky to have a few good options here within reasonable driving distance. I'm still going to assemble it myself, and check EVERYTHING as I go. You just never know! Hope it all goes back together better for you.
engine rebuild Guys after reading this tread , I was wondering if one of the big time engine builders would post a basis rebuild from cleaning on up. I'm not talking about a full blown race motor,just a good street motor. Because of s$#@ like this. Pics of the main things to watch. Something like this would be very cool.
^^^^ I'll second that request. Gary, Calgary DOES have great beer. I'll need some after this mess is all over. Did you mean that you're a "Picture Butte" native?
Don't know "Picture Butte". Butte, Montana. Traveled to Calgary once in the early '70s for spring break from college, and again when my 1st kid was little. Banff, Waterton Lakes, Glacier National.. BC is nice also. Fished off the Campbell River, Vancouver Island when in high school.
Clint, I just now caught up with your fiasco. Sorry to hear that bud. Here's an idea. Have the shop fix their mistake, and in the mean-time, advertise it for sale. Then take the sale proceeds and build a different one yourself. Walk away from any other possible hidden mistakes. I run into problems with so called experts in my day job (that have nothing to do with cars) that have no business even talking about their area of expertise. I swear some people make money accidently. You can build it; you've done it before. It's not rocket science, it's adherance to specs and using proven parts. Give yourself the credit you're due! Build it at home (or farm it out to TSP, PAE, TA, Earick, etc., etc.) Best wishes on the re-do "Mr. Giant". Ramin
Thanks Ramin, Yeah, I underestimated myself and it cost me. Won't make that mistake again. I don't think I could sell it and sleep well at night unless I was sure that there were no major screw ups in it. It's either fix it a lot and sell it, or scrap it outright. I 10000% agree on the fakers. I work with software and engineering and the number of HTML "experts" trying to pass themselves off as C++ & C# guys is sickening... let alone what scum I see trying to be a heavy compressor & pump expert! It's a wonder more people aren't killed in this industry. anyhow... The heads are fine, as are the pistons and rods. I pulled the cam etc and found that the bearings were installed wrong (holes at 6 & 9 rather than 3 & 6). I wrote a diagram on the @#&*^ box no less!! New parts are on order. The leakdown showed up mostly in holes 3 & 6. There was also water in the head studs, though I attribute this to the pathetic seal on the head gasket. Someone didn't retorque. Any thoughts on this nasty leakdown result? I have not checked the rod or main clearances yet. I'm going to get the original shop to dyno-breakin the damn thing on startup this time, that way they can repair simple leaks & screwups. Any problems with oil pressure or low compression and this thing is in the trash bin. The second buildup is already in progress, but i don't expect that one until late 2005. ...and yes one of the "real" Buick shops will be getting the machining contract on this one. I've had it with local stupidity. If the wall and main clearances are complete crap I'm just going to scrap the block and start over, everything else I can fix. Here's what I'm trying to decide: Option 1: I've got a 67 Skylark coming home from paint & body in about 2 weeks. I'm thinking that maybe it should get this engine, suitably patched up and ready to go. Then start my second buildup on a brand new block, with new parts, new AL heads, new pistons etc. Option 2: Keep the POS engine currently in the `lark and start a completely new project for the Wagon. Move the good parts (heads, pistons, etc) from this crapper and save a few $$$$. Any votes?
Hey Clint, hope all is well. Keep us posted of any new developments. Good luck on the dyno. :beer PS. Just sent you a PM.
CLINT!!!!! WTF????????ou: We gotta talk.... Man, oh man, that sucks. Who did the machine work?? I think next time I know where you need to go. A very serious dude, not much time for our small motors (he builds top alcohol engines amongst others) and not much of a sense of humour that I have seen, but the machine work is impeccable. He listened to what I said, and did what I asked. Bearings came back in their boxes with clearances marked at the torque used and with the lube used as well. Meticulous. Everything matched when I checked. Block came back with new guide pins, all surfaces buffed off, sharp edges removed. Prices are not bad at all. He even has the adaptor now to run the BBB on his dyno (he had to make it for my engine). Engine before mine made 2600HP. I always put my own engines together, not because I'm joe cool or anything, but because I can double, triple or quadrouple check something if I want to, take as long as I want and nobody gets billed. Good luck with that thing, hopefully it will work out in the end. I got bit by bad machine work too (remember the heads that killed my cam bearings?) so I feel your pain.... Make a cam bearing tool from my website and put your own bearings in, then there is no confusion. later Tim PS My basic 288-94H stage 1 headed mild port job made 422Hp and 500ft/lbs from 2500-5000, corrected. You should be way above that.
Hey Clint, I feel your pain as well, you definately have to be nuts to be a Canadian buick lover a couple years ago. I had a shop build my street motor and had similar problems, I understand why Harold Rolls had Scott of Pee Gee do his bottom end. Hope all works out with Tim's guy. Dexter
Thanks for the support guys, Tim, just sent you an email. I'm not sure how bad things are yet (still in process of pulling it all apart) but I definitely made a lot of stupid mistakes here trusting the shop ...those I'll never make again. Thing is, I've done a few right before this way, asked all the right questions... and still got burned! Shows that you should never be too careful in your shop selection, even if they get the talk right they can still screw up. I think it'll involve paying for a total restart at this point. I'll know more after this weekend.
