James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement: "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
how can you forget about the meatloaf? savory, tasty, succulent meatloaf. nothing says presidental elegence like a steamy lump of gravy covered meat products.
He was the President of the United States!!!!! He can't say "God". He's lucky the ACLU wasn't around back then. They'd have sued his pants off!!!!! I hate the ACLU. They take one line from a letter and use it as their basis to rip God and his laws from our way of life. Someone needs to remind them that the reason people came here, the Pilgrims, was to seek religious freedom and based their government around the principles of God.
finaaly someone got the message i passed on. thanks Greg 92% of americans believe in god in one religouse way or another so then why are 8% contolling our way and the past people that came to this country our way of life why can't we just take that part back and after that go for more and then the government wonders why our kids get in trouble a whole way of life was lost from my generation to what is now
That's hard to do when they won't even let them be displayed in public places. No wonder God is mad. ou:
I think it comes down to a few things, First off the school systems would rather teach the big bang theory to our children rather then teach them anything about religion. That is sad to say but true, Next is the fact that around my end of town the banners during Christmas do not say "Merry Christmas", they say "Happy Hollidays", what a joke, they actually had a local school remove the banner that said "Merry Christmas" and replace it. People will sure celebrate the gift of giving on Christmas and have no idea of what it really is, just an excuse to give and recieve presents like it is just another day, Why even celebrate it if you don't believe in what it stands for, it is called "Christ"mas for a reason. :spank: Last of all the studies lately are showing that folks over the age of 55 are at a amazing figure of not finding any religion for the remainder of their life, and you know where not believing in Jesus will get you, a warm bed and it will only cost you your soul. How sad but true.
There is a very good reason for the separation of Church and State. I wouldn't want some stranger imposing there spititual ideas on my daughter. School is for imparting basic, universal knowledge (and some theories). The only way we could have "religion" taught in school is if everyone was the same "religion"....which we are not. We are all free to belive and to worship however we want. Some of us have very different beliefs, therefore we have a need to keep government out of teaching religion. Learning about God (or whatever) is what Church is for. Or if you have a large enough bank account, you can send your child to a private, religion based school of your choice...where you will know what spiritual lessons will be taught. Hope I didn't step out of bounds.
No you did not step out of bounds, rather just brought another opinion that contrasts mine, but that is what the world is all about, differences. I don't understand how they can teach the big bang theory to these kids knowing that there is no real proof it ever happened, but they will not teach any religious beliefs that at least has light for them at the end of the tunnel that they will be saved, rather teach them how they think the world came about. If this is the route they take you might as well teach them Darwinism, which in itself is a joke. We all know there is no exact proof that Jesus ever lived, it is just something you believe in, kind of like how you sit in a chair and you know it is going to hold you up. It is called faith, not hope that someday the monkey we all came from will show up in a rare random cave in a mountain side. There is always someway the state and church can be affiliated with each other, no it may not be plastered on your local newpaper telling you so, but anyone who has taken some college courses on Political Science could tell you that state funding of churches has been around since the church and state dwelled together way back in the day. I think even though it is written that State and Church can't have anything to do with each other, there are so many ways politics can make things like both of them doing buisness together happen on a scale where the public is blind to the fact. The government owns us, we don't own them, or otherwise they would be paying us the federal taxes.
I don't believe you stepped out of bounds at all. Frankly, I think its a valid, well spoken reply and I thank you for the point you make. I can go along with the separation of church and state in schools. I agree, I don't think its right to teach any particular religion in a public school. You're also correct in your statement that's what private schools are for. But -- I don't think religion should be pulled entirely from schools. I attended a local college founded by Cathelics (altho I'm not Cathelic myself). Being a private university founded on a religious background, they have some introductory theology courses everyone is required to take. One was a "Religions of the World" course. It was one of the most fascinating classes I ever took. It discussed the basic beliefs & traditions related to all the larger religions and a few of the more obscure. Why couldn't courses along those lines be offered in public schools? It would be a good counterpart to the Big Bang. It should also help youth be more accepting of other religions when they understand them. As far as pulling religious symbols such as the Ten Commandments from courthouses, "Merry Christmas" banners from public, etc. It ticks me off. Everyone is so anxious to be here in the U.S. to have that religious freedom, but then isn't willing to recognize and respect the fact the U.S. itself is built on Christian values. Yes, everyone is welcome to practice their religion here and we will respect that freedom. We'll even fight to our deaths to protect that freedom on your behalf. But its damn well time our history and religious background & symbols are respected too. HEY ACLU - kiss my :moonu: !!!!
AND ALWAYS REMEMBER: Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. Greg
Although many of the initial immigrants to this country came here for religious freedom, the country they came from was Christian, just like most of them. They weren't trying to escape another religion or lack thereof, they were trying to escape the imposition of a particular interpretation/enforcement of that religion by the government. That is one of the many things the government was based on. Worship wasn't one of them. John F. Guay and Adam Denney - your posts are refreshing. It shows people can accept both if they wish - not feeling one neccessarily denies the other. "By the way, who do you think lit the fuse for the big bang?" is a perfect example. That is why diests and atheists can study science side by side without getting in a fight. Science deals with the physical, Religion deals with the spiritual - and these are not mutally exclusive. Most atheists are so because they don't believe, not because they feel science "disproved" anything. Similarly, many diests who support a separation of church and state do so not because of science, but because they believe the government should stay out of religion, lest something bad happen
j.f.g madison was a total kook. did you see the movie about him? what a dofus. he had to go back to 1st grade as an adult because he failed it when he was a child..
I think anyone who completly, flat out denies the possibility of any theory is being exceedingly narrow minded. Science has its theories. To claim they're downright wrong, or a joke (no jab intended, just saying), is silly. Darwinism has supporting evidence. There's definately similarities between man and ape, on an atatomical and genetic level. Human nature isn't that far off from animal instinct. Does that mean Darwin was absolutely right? Heavens no, some of his theories have more holes than a ricer muffler. On the other end, religion is often a shoddy instution (take a european history class some time if you don't believe me), but it has wonderful backing. The books of the Bible were written by dozens of men, hundreds of years and miles apart, yet it never contradicts itself. Even if you don't much care for the history part of it (which I don't), you can still believe in a loving God. Any instution based on caring for others can't be bad. Balance, acceptance, compassion and open-mindedness are more important than man-made "science" or "religion", in my opinion. Sorry if I've been long winded... just felt the need to speak. ~Mike PS: Being a recent veteran of the whole "School" experience, I can fairly confidently tell you that they really don't teach creation or evolution in school. Once you get to high school and college, you can elect to take classes in religion or astronomy and physics... but before then, its not like either is really forced upon you. Even when it is, teachers present them as theories, not undisputible fact (as many of them are religious themselves).
