It is time to begin bodywork (rust repairs). I have been trying to decide about how to install a new quarter on my 70 Skylark and having trouble with it. On one hand there are some good epoxy's out there that don't require a welder. But I know welding would probably be better but I don't know anything about welding and I really don't want to mess it up. I recently purchased a small mig welder (flux core) and have played with it with not very good results on some scrap metal. I have read that the epoxy's can give great results but I am concerned about the body twisting. My car pulls the front wheels so this will be an issue I think. Any help and tips or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
Forget the flux core wire. Most small welders can be outfitted with a gas set up. Much better results and much easier to weld with. There are a ton of how to videos all over the web. A little practice and you'll be fine. Besides, if you're making that much power, you'll eventually break something that will need to be welded. Might as well learn now!
The epoxy is the way to go, use the 45 minute one to give you plenty of work time. Dispite what others claim epoxy is easier, faster and just as strong a weld. Most of todays cars a epoxied together. Body shops prefer using epoxy for the reason I stated and contamination form welds is not an issue. Most shops that deal with insurance companies have to gaurentee thier work for up to 5 years. Epoxies just help them avoid come backs. 3M, Proform, and Fusior are all good products check out thier websites and check it out for yourself.
I'm going to guess that the welder is a little cheaper and wont take gas. I have one like that in the garage. As for welding or epoxy, I'm not sure how you epoxy metal together the right way? How do you make a butt joint with epoxy? What body shops do today, I'm going to guess has nothing to do with what you do with a 40 year old car. Cars today get a part removed and a new part bolted back on, or maybe a glue job on the plastic. If you want to do the job right, you want to weld it. If you are having trouble getting a good weld, practice, have it done or get some help. If you are going to try epoxy, make sure and talk to some one and figure out how to do it safe. You are not going to be able to get a patch panel that's bigger than the part you cut out, lap int and glue it. The thing would never look right. Find some one who has been doing this type of work for a long time and talk to them. Join the local car club and draw on the knowledge base there. You will probably find that there are good people who will guide you, and you will probably make some new friends along the way.
For doing but joints you can back it up with a bonding strip of metal behind the joint. Epoxy is a fraction of the price of a welder and you won't have to have wiring up graded in you garage to use them. When you weld up a pannel the back side still has the oxidized area. Unless you get in there and clean it up the potenal of rust working back through is high. You can spray rust preventers and sealers in the affected area, but again if you can't see the area the chance of rust is still prevelent. With epoxy the area worked is sealed and the potenal of rust is all most zero. Also you can hang a pannel in about 20 min. once fitted and ready for body work in about 2 hours after install. Welding on a pannel will take about 8 hours, oh yah, the potenial of heat warpage is ZERO with epoxy. Warpage with your first welded pannel application, very high, more body work. Now I'm not saying don't buy a welder, please do, there are lots of other uses for it that you will find for it. A Lincoln Mig Pac 15 is a great unit for the garage,(I was the Lincln rep for three years), and will fit most of your needs. As far as your first try at a pannel application use epoxy, save time, money, and achive a better finished product. There is nothing worse than being discouraged with your car because something didn't work out and you know what lies under that fresh paint. Good Luck and keep us all posted with your project!!
I think I'm a bit of a skeptic about using glue to put a new panel on, but I will do a little research and see what this is all about. Doesn't sound right, but I will read up on it.
Hey David, it has been done for the last thirty years, my pickup had a repair nine years ago and not a problem. I have repped Proform products for years, I can count on one hand the number of warrenty claims I have had to handle. Most of those claims were application error, wrong product for application. Once you do a repair with these products you will wonder why anybody would weld a pannel on. Trucks had an episode were they did a repair on a late modle Chevy pickup. Check it out.
Here's a V8TVshow video showing the process. Sorry, it's on a Chevelle... http://v8tvshow.com/content/view/595/74/
Well can you start me off with a product brand and what they call it for research? As with most things I assume that there is the best and the rest. Got me curious. I may have to buy a beater to check this out some time if I'm impressed with what I read. I'm not too old to think about new strange methods of doing things.
Check out 3M, Proform Products, Lord-Fusiour for info on the products and application. We will make a beliver out of you yet David, never too old to learn something new!!!
We did a combination of both when we replaced mine. Short story is we welded at the top and glued at the bottom. Lord Fusor (sp?) is what we used. I believe George's website has a lengthy how to article on this subject.
I am glad to have gotten some response to this question. I am now leaning to the epoxy route. But I would like to read more about it or maybe see some more videos like that one from V8tv that was posted earlier. It just seems like something I could have a better chance at a good result. Plus going this route I my be able to do a minimum fix instead of a whole quarter replacement.
I'm with you, but I am going to do some research on the epoxy. I have a hard time imagining it being as good of a job as a weld because you will have to have a lap and among other things those of us that are not from a dry climate look at that as a place where dirt and moisture will sit and start the new rot. Still going to look at it. It's interesting if nothing else.
well on some things it is alot easier to glue on. however i was told not to glue structural parts. but this was a few years ago.
I use this stuff all the time and it is awesome. However, I wouldn't hack that car like they did in this video in a million years. One prime example is in this video, go to about 8:20 and watch how they apply a 3/8th inch wide strip of adhesive to a 1-2 inch wide strip of bare metal. The proper way to do this is to apply adhesive to ALL of the bare metal and brush it on evenly. Then you can go back and run your bead of adhesive to both panels as to get enough adhesive to completely fill any voids that might occur. As you saw with the screws, the panel couldn't be clamped entirely or over every square inch of contact surface. Would you rather have a void or a slightly thicker patch of adhesive? The other main reason to make sure all your contact points are completely covered with adhesive is to prevent rust. When properly glued and sealed to prevent moisture from entering the joint I have no doubt this stuff will last forever. The adhesive is expensive, but I would rather have excess adhesive flowing out of the seam when it is clamped that can easily be wiped off before it dries. In the video they talk of concern over warpage with welding. They ended up pounding on the fiberglass reinforced filler over the seam. If they had screwed that new panel over the old panel and cut through both with a 1994 3m cutoff wheel my mom could butt weld it for them. Plus they had about 5 or 6 feet of welding to do, no reason not to be able to skip around with the welder and avoid warping. The hardest part is to remember that grinding the welds is an easy way to warp your panel too. You have to skip around there as well. Not to mention that if you can see the weld on the inside of the trunk, you can finish it on the inside too, at least as far as one can see from outside the car. On the other hand, if they had used enough adhesive on the panel, they could have wore a latex glove and smoothed the adhesive by hand to make a smoother looking seam. Which they could cover with Q pads or Dynamat or the like. Or spatter paint, whatever floats your boat. If my post sounds negative, it usually starts when I watch those videos because they almost always show someone pulling a strip of old metal off of a rusty car with no gloves of any kind. If you are going to make an "instructional" video use your damn safety equipment no exceptions.
My little Lincoln 135 would weld that panel all day through a 100 foot long home depot extension cord hooked to a power strip running my plasma tv and a dishwasher at the same time. I don't even want to get started discussing the ease of repair if God forbid the quarter is damaged in the future. That adhesive is amazing stuff, but I just don't understand why people want to do that to a classic car.
