Hemmings Muscle Machines-FAST

Discussion in 'Stock Appearing' started by JLerum, Jul 2, 2009.

  1. BlackGold

    BlackGold Well-Known Member

    Jim, I'm not trying to argue here -- just provide a different perspective.

    There are a number of guys running 10s at about 120 mph in NHRA SuperStock with the Olds 307 in cars weighing more than 3500 lbs. We're talking stock displacement, 9.4:1 compression ratio, factory heads (porting is allowed, but the runner volume can't be bigger than stock), stock valve sizes, and a Quadrajet carb. The engine rules are a lot like FAST, with the exception SS can run headers and an aftermarket intake. But that's offset by the more restrictive head modification rules, compression ratio rules, and small displacement. I'm pretty sure these guys aren't flowing over 300 cfm through those soda-straw ports.

    Anyway, I'm just expressing my opinion (and that's all it is) that the reason there isn't an Olds or Buick near the top of the FAST class is that no one has ever launched an all-out effort -- not that Olds and Buick face an impossible situation. I agree: the total package is the key.
     
  2. BuickNut455

    BuickNut455 Well-Known Member

    Brian:
    Your missing a big point here and your not making an apples to apples comparison.
    The big guys in FAST are are running what they are on street tires. Easy 9 second cars on slicks and an optimized combination for launching all out. (5500 plus stall, slicks) Your 307 Olds example is on slicks. Put the same street tires on the 307 car and a tight converter and what would it do? Slow down a bunch.
    There is a huge difference between a 10.90 car and a 10.30 car, on street tires especially. It's pretty safe to assume it would take a LOT more HP to make up that difference. 800 plus HP won't happen with our iron Stage 1 heads, intake, and exhaust manifolds. Not even close.
     
  3. Jim Rodgers

    Jim Rodgers Well-Known Member

    Brian,

    I'm cool with all of this so dont take this the wrong way.

    Are the SS guys running trans brakes? I dont think they weigh 3500 either, but I could be wrong? And 120 is a long way from 130.

    My only point is the Qjet isnt the entire problem with the 455 Buick. Our 455 intake and exhaust manifolds are killing us compared to the big guys, namely Chev and HEMI. Compare the two and its easy to see.

    As far as an all out effort on a Stage 1 Buick, compression, cubic inches, porting of the stock pieces, roller cam etc all of this will still be restricted by the intake and exhaust manifolds because even in optimized form, they are still far behind the Chevy and HEMI pieces as they are off the showroom floor. It takes air flow to make horsepower, and our Buicks have a severe limitation in that department. And our block? Lordy, doesnt it leave a lot to be desired.

    Now, my comments are just that nothing more. Besides, every time I make comments like this, Gessler steps up and proves me wrong by going quicker and faster than I thought possible. :laugh:
     
  4. Tom Miller

    Tom Miller Loch Ness Monster

    More apples to oranges comparison here, but I don't think the Buick exhaust manifolds are as bad as you think when comparing them to a BB Chevy manifold, and I'm talking run of the mill Big Chevy manifolds, not the Vette pieces.
    A big rectangle port Chevy is severely choked by the exhaust manifolds, take the factory LS-6 dyno test's, I think it could only muster about 370HP through the exhaust manifolds. It took bolting on 2" primary headers to make 451HP.
    More apples to oranges, and completely off-topic, I think the reason you see the 450+ cubic inch motored cars running close in Pure Stock is dicatated by the exhaust manifolds. The Buick Stage1 and Olds W-30 made their true advertised HP numbers through manifolds (360 and 370 respectively) and the Mighty LS-6 makes roughly the same through exhaust manifolds.The 455HO Poncho is right there too. I would think the Olds manifolds are about the biggest turds in the bunch, but Darrell Detweilers certified stock W-30 has gone 12.60 at over 110mph,and it's a heavy car.

    I already know that what I posted has NOTHING to do with the topic here, but neither does comparing a header equipped Stage2 to F.A.S.T. cars with manifolds, or to compare a 307 Super Stocker to the F.A.S.T. cars.

    Just food for thought, and more bench racing material to chew on:TU:
     
  5. Tim Clary

    Tim Clary Well-Known Member

    With Mr. Miller on this one.

    BBC (Chevelle ,camaro) exhaust manifolds SUCK. Vette pieces ARE NICE !
    I always thought Buick exhaust manifolds weren't to bad. Ecspecially after talking to Gessler about flow numbers !

    LS6 70 and 71 intakes are bath tub style also ( So they would fit under the VETTE) On the dyno the tall 3964163 ( 1969 and earlier ) intake is worth 20hp on the dyno!!!!!

    Someone earlier said that NHRA favored the the chevs and mopars.
    I don't think they made the crappy parts ,,just specs and numbers.

    If you want to see favors look up 71 and 72 Buick max NHRA compression.
    How the heellllll do you get 13:1 compression out of a 9:1 smog motor??
    And look up NHRA max lift?? wasn't ACTUAL like .398 .450 ish??

    I too think the stage 2 would run good,BUTTT just like the LS7 cars , never Factory installed so MOOT point.

    Not starting a war , just pointing out facts.:Do No:
     
  6. Dave H

    Dave H Well-Known Member

    Talking with Gessler a few years back when I was thinking seriously of running my 66 442 in FAST, he said the Olds exhaust manifolds weren't really that bad, but the pancake intake was the limiting factor.

    That really only applies to the W/Z 69-72 442 dual exhaust manifolds...The others are not chambered..worst is the small block which never had dual exhaust manifolds from the factory and more closely resembles campfire wood...

    Unfortunately for FAST or Pure Stock you would have to have a 70-72 big block car to take advantage of those manifolds. 69 442's other than the Hurst, didn't use the 455.

    End of that plan...
     
  7. britt'sStage 1

    britt'sStage 1 A Lone Wolf In D.C.

    I know this is a Stretch...would the "Factory" Stage 2 GSX that was built by GM, that was taken out to Bill Trevor,back in the day that raced the Ram Air V GTO,(and beat it by 2...) Qualify the Stage 2...? Just asking....Mr.Jay B.Britt,Jr.
     

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