Stripping some paint down on the drivers door I ran across this... What would be the best way to fix this? Im guessing a patch panel is the only way, but I dont have a lot of welding experience and only have a cheapo HF flux wire feed that is not fun to use. but i'll make do with what I got. some advice would be helpful here, like where the best spot to cut would be, should it be a butt weld or another type?? what should I do with the back of the panel? just looking for some ideas from you guys that done this many times. Thanks
this answer may get others all wound up !......with the circumstance you have with little welding experience and a marginal welder i would glue in a patch panel....you will need to go to an auto body supply store and get a patch panel adhesive.3m, sem, fusor are the ones i have used.....you will need to buy a specialty caulking gun which cost approx $40.......all you do is cut out the rust and leave a 1" lap grind the areas on both panels where the lap is with a NEW! 24 grit sanding disc, then glue the panel together as per the products specs....when cured your first filler coat should be either a long strand fibreglas filler or metal to metal...... my living is metal shaping and i am a very proficient welder and on many low crown panels this is how i attach them....because there is no heat from the welding process there is no metal distortion or warping
You could just take the door in to a body shop or a welder. If you do the prep work and the finish work, it wont cost too much.
Isn't glueing panels an accepted repair practices these days by insurance and government regulations? I have to agree with metalshaper.
No matter how you "cut it "...even an NOS door (have had one replaced this way properly) for free. Have a dry Arizona one shipped to anywhere in U.S.A. Around 100 bucks maybe. Easy to do, seller or yard can send a pic to you. You already have a computer, both should have one. Door should arrive in 10 days. Any body should be able to grind and replace patchs, $20 cash. Just wait for dry door. $20 cash pay for part needed. All this is "free", no need for "lucky." Free for me. Had to pay duty. Body man. Had to pay duty. All paid xxxx$$ Had to pay duty. XXXX$ FREE!!
So what did this look like before you started grinding it? Are you able to get inside your door to look at it? If the metal isn't too thin and more rust than I am looking at..why couldn't you use body solder? Just wondering.... Scott
silver buick is right......in some cases insurance companies and ICAR will require a panel to be glued......many body panels on todays cars are glued on from the factory......to do an oem warranted repair certain manufacturers will require a certai brand be used to maintain the factory warranty.....one of the places where you cannot use the glue is on structural panels [in a unibody] and the reason is that a glued joint is stronger than a welded joint and could affect the crumple zones designed into the car if an accident happens......as i said earlier the adhesive is about $35 ...and you will need their specific caulking gun which cost approx $40 [you can also use the gun for seam sealer and other 2 part applications].....you can hire a body shop or welder and deal with distortion from the weld and the area shown is in a not so easy area to hammer and dolly the piece smooth also that patch even though its small will be at least $100.....finding a rust free door from out of the south west could work but you better be sitting down when you see the freight charge.....also you asked about a back side coating i use a product from 3m called internal panel coating....it comes in a spray can or you can get a bottle which attaches to a shutz gun with a special wand and sprays 360 degrees.....this product will seep in places other product dont get into and leave a wax like coating
great replies, thanks guys. Scott, the door didnt look bad before, Im actually taking down the paint on the car to get rid of the Enamel satin black that was on it and taking care of any flaws along the way. Thats when I noticed some bubbling on the door. I dont think the metal is "too" thin other than what you see. i tapped on the weak spots and the holes you see are a result of it. the back had some debris trapped in the crease which likely caused it, just a little surface rust around the holes that need to be cleaned out...i think its fine around it. Im decent at filler work and massaging out small dings and what not but this gets out of my knowledge range, If body solder is acceptable for this, I would like to know more about it... ill research, thanks! Metalshaper, great info, I would weld it if needed but I like the idea of the alternative you posted. Panel warping and the lack of space to work the metal is what concerned me too. I had no idea gluing was even an option, im interested in learning more on this. Im sure it would give me a cleaner finished product than the horrible welding, burn thru, warping, and frustration :blast: Plus, its JUST A DOOR, if it doesnt work out in the long run I would be a bit more at ease having to swap a door out as opposed to the damage being somewhere stationary like a qtr panel or window channel etc. Ill study up on the glue method what gauge steel is best for this? 22? 20?
be very careful with body solder you are dealing with lead when grinding and sanding the dust is toxic and when lead enters your system its there forever your body does not pass it like other toxins....make shure you wear the proper respirator and make shure your hands and clothes are covered ......also he lead today and the lead in the past are not the same...the lead used in solder bars is mostly made up of recycled lead not virgin lead [along with the tin] and does not stick as easily as it once did.....with lead there are also paint adhesion problems [look at roof lines on older cars that had quarters and roof lines leaded together] and many times you will see problems in those areas...many shops will melt out the lead and instal a metal piece to fill in the void....if you use lead talk to an auto body supply rep to get the proper primer to stick to the lead......another solution is to use a long strand fiberglas filler or a metal based body such as metal to metal....i have seen cars that have over 15 years since the body work was done with no signs of blistering....as far as what metal to use 22 ga is easier to work with but the steel on that car should have been 29- 20 ga....make sure what ever method you use that you properly protect the back side of the finished product with a protective coating.....too many times i see people who did a very nice repair and did not protect the back side only to have it rust out in a couple of years....those holes in the panel nicely told you this is a problem area and to handle the moisture problems better than the factory did
If solder is the route you go check out eastwood. There are two types. One with lead and the other without, and by all means protect the inside of the door as stated previously. Scott
I have a similar condition in the area just behind the front wheel well. It's bubbled but no holes through the metal. As I sand it I may make holes. I had very good results with POR 15 for the pin holes in my trunk floor and I'm wondering about using POR 15 Epoxy Putty to level the area after sanding and then using epoxy primer to protect the area until Iget the rest of the car ready for paint. Any input will be welcome. Art RTR
Art, if its bubbling im sure the metal is soft and useless, go for it...just sand it all down and dont look back, if holes form from sanding..then great! Better to get it ALL out and repaired then hide soft metal that will just get worse, under that new paint your getting. Thats why i just went for it. Hopefully by next spring ill have a fresh new paintjob too and i dont want money wasted when paint starts blistering because i decided to just cover up some rust that didnt seem TOO bad looking at it from the outside. I too was going to ask about por 15 epoxy putty, stuff seems strong, would it work for small holes in the long run?
+ 1 on that. Any body shop (or a good welder) can weld that up easy without any metal patching. Good Luck :TU:
in response to marx junk my company name is performance metal shaping we are located on manchester nh and edgewater fla....our wesite is performancemetalshaping.com and my direct to me cell # is 603-361-3180 ....we teach metal shaping classes,sell and design metal shaping tools and equipment and also sell restoration tools at national car shows....my primary business is dealing with rust through issues if anyone needs advice on metal panel repair [rust or dents] call between 8 am - 4 pm est to the above #
I was just looking to order lower rear quarter panels for my 72 suncoupe from c2cfabrication.com.and saw 68-72 door shells for $360.44.....brand new part no rust fairly cheap.....just thought i would pass it on......their other buick patch panels were pretty reasonable also.....
You can fill them with any body filler you want as long as moisture can't get to the back side,and you use a quality epoxy primer on the front. Making a patch panel for pinholes is a little excessive ,panel adhesive works best on bare metal so that would work great in that application,just make sure the backside is clean. Cover with a good primer and your done. I use panel adhesive for all kinds of things around the shop.
Thanks for all the advice everyone, some great ideas. If i could i would just grab another door, unfortunately its not within my budget right now, poking around in there some more i can see that its not very bad, what you see is the full extent of it, so i dont think im going to go for having a new panel welded in, im leaning towards some good long strand filler and seal it up real good on both sides. Or at the most i will look into panel adhesive and slapping a patch on it along with the fiberglass filler. Ill update as i go, if it doesnt work out as planned oh well, its just a door. Live and learn. Thanks all!
