I finally got my Skylark

Some of you may remember me from this thread: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16800.

Unfortunately, plans to bring the Skylark home were put on hold for a while. Finally, about a month ago, me and my father went up to my grandfathers' house (now owned by my uncle) to pick up the car and bring it home. The latest we've heard is that it will start and can drive. It's about an hour drive back, and after sitting in a garage for the best part of the last 15-20 years, an hour trip will likely reveal just about all current problems with the car.

Let me back up a little... My uncle, who now resides in my grandfathers' house, has come on hard times lately and hasn't kept up the house, let alone the car. This wouldn't bother me too much, however before arriving, he informed us over the phone that there *might* be a slight rodent problem in the garage. :eek2:

So, before we drove it back, we decided to do a quick visual inspection. Indeed, there was a family of rats who had decided to make a home in the trunk. Since it's an hour away from home, it wouldn't be really practical to drive over to it every day or two setting traps and trying to catch them. My father insisted on bringing it home and exterminating the problem there. He also insisted on driving it back himself... Brave man.

So, myself following in the chase car, we start making our way back. A few minutes into the trip, it starts to rain. From the chase car, I see the windshield wipers start to work. We probably should have tested those before we left. Oh well, no harm no foul. Everything is going good. We're about 15 minutes away now, getting on central expressway (Highway 75) in McKinney. Rain is moderate to heavy, and I see my father going crazy, trying to wipe the windshield off while going 60mph down the highway. The windshield wipers had stopped. :eek2: A few seconds later and they kicked in again. He said he couldn't see anything! :shock:

We survived the trip without incident. The next step was taking care of the rat problem. I'm not going to go into details on Operation Ratinator, but the final body count was 4. Two were killed in action, one was captured alive and promptly taken care of, and the last died of natural causes in the Texas heat. It took about two weeks to declare an end to major operations. After that, we could get to work on the car. We did all basic maintenance. Put new tires on it as well, in addition to inspection and registration.

Now it's road worthy, however there are a few more things to be taken care of. The carburetor definitely needs to be gone through. My father says a bad accelerator pump is likely causing a bogging down when the car is cold. It also has an exhaust leak causing sort of a ticking noise. A bad exhaust manifold we figure is most likely to blame for this. The last problem we had been told about by my uncle, who informed us that the drivers side valve cover might be leaking oil.

More recently though, we found a small puddle of coolant below the passenger side firewall. We found that it was likely the heater core, and it was a fairly common problem on older cars in general. Since I'm in Texas and will likely need the heater very rarely, it's not an urgent problem. My father, who back in the 60's and 70's raced a 67 Firebird 400 and had a fair amount of experience with cars, said we could simply cut the lines to the heater core and plug them off. He said that he'd done this on this Firebird and with my brothers car as well, both of which had heater core problems.

I discussed all this with the guys at work, and they informed me that simply plugging those hoses up will have very bad consequences, and I must make sure to bypass the heater hoses, not just plug them up. Not wanting to question my father, and a proven method he has used, I simply ignored the advice. We plugged the hoses up.

Yesterday, all hell broke loose. I was at a stop light, all of the sudden smoke started coming from underneath the hood. I sat there expecting a huge ball of flames to erupt. I was pulling my hair out waiting for the light to go green so I could pull into the shell station right past the intersection. It was obviously overheating and the smoke was the oil that was burning off the exhaust manifold from the valve cover oil leak I mentioned before.

The overflow tank was boiling, and the car remained running for a few seconds after I pulled the key. My father came and picked me up and we left it at the shell station for a few hours to let it cool down. When we brought it back home, it was having the same problem.

Would plugging, and not bypassing the heater core hoses cause this problem? Or would it be something else. Because the overflow tank was boiling, it leads me to believe that it likely isn't a thermostat issue. Can someone explain this to me?

By the way, in the first post here a little more than a year ago, a few of you asked for pictures. Here's one...

 

Sounds like you need to find out why it's overheating. It doubt it's because the heater lines are plugged. Flush the system completely and make sure you get a KNOWN working thermostat in there. 180* is a good start for the temp on the tstat. There coul;d be gunk on the radiator causing it not to function properly....in that case, buy a new one or have this one boiled out. Improper timing and fuel mix could contribute to this as well.


Welcome back to the board!!:beer

 

Jeff, take the advice of Buick guys over guys from work. Sounds to me like they couldn't even explain the "bad consequences", sorta like, "I dunno what will happen, but it must be bad"


Your problem is hard to diagnose over the internet, but we need to know a few things:

What's the engine?
What radiator (2 row?)?
Is there a small drip of coolant under the snout of the water pump?
Are you timed correctly?


As a guess, I'd say you need a water pump and a new thermostat. Replacing the heater core is no big deal, but you do need to remove a fender

 

Hi Jeff, I just got done reading your original post as well as this one. I'm sorry you lost your Grandpa, it sounds like he was a good man. I'll bet he had some pretty fast squirrels in his yard. Darn that telephone pole!!

My car had a resident rat or 2 sometime before I bought it. You should probably pull the back seat out completely, there could be a big nest hiding in there. Hopefully you won't find any more casualties. At least the one I found was petrified. p My car got the name Petunia because she looked pretty but didn't smell real good.

Hopefully your exhaust leak is just the gasket and not the manifold itself. I agree with Adam, flush the radiator and put in a new thermostat and fresh antifreeze/antiboil. The overflow tank boiling doesn't really mean the thermostat isn't the problem.

Does the car usually run on, or just when it overheated? Does the starter sound funny? Check your spark plugs, they should be dry and a nice coffee brown color. Is your exhaust really white? Those are clues to timing and fuel mix problems.

When you take off the valve cover to replace the gasket there shouldn't be any sludge in there. Maybe this doesn't apply anymore with todays better oils, but my Dad told me to change the oil and filter after I overheated my first car.

It's a nice looking car, let us know what you find out.

 

Hey, great resuce. Sorry to hear about you grandpa. On a car like that , that hasn't been driven alot. I would look at replacing all rubber hoses. Heater core, water pump, and radiator also. You do what to have a car that is dependable. Check front brake hoses to! That is a very nice Skylark. If I am not mistaken the only difference between your car and a GS350 car is the 4-barrel and GS emblem's and the ram air set-up.

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. I didn't get a good chance to discuss this with them, and since then my internship has ended at the company and I'm no longer working up there. They aren't buick guys, and it really didn't sound like they were very big into cars either, just they had a bad experience with plugging up their heater core hoses, heh.

1. Engine is a stock 1972 350 4BBL.
2. Not sure, but it's the stock radiator that came with the 1972 Skylark, if that is any indicator. The car didn't have any towing package options or anything like that, so I'm nearly positive it's just the basic unit that came with that model.
3. No. Nothing indicates that this is a waterpump issue, though I'll take that into consideration when we start troubleshooting today.
4. Yes. The car runs great and sounds great, except for the small exhaust leak. That is, of course, before it starts to overheat.

Glad to know I'm not the only one who has had this problem. I did pull the back seat out completely, which is where I discovered the one that got away and died later of natural causes. As I lifted one side of the bottom portion of the back seat up, it was obvious that's where they were living. As I inspected the area, my father, who was standing next to me, said "there's that last one..." I didn't get what he was saying, until I looked up and saw that the last bugger was hanging by its tail in one of the springs of the back seat RIGHT in front of my face! :eek2: My actions were a little less than manly at that point, but it was a dead rat dangling right in front of my face, so I'm not ashamed at all.

The odor isn't bad at all, though it is there. Any ideas on how to deodorize it without having to cover it up with the green christmas tree smell?

I'm 99% sure that it's the gasket. When you put your hand close to the first cylinder exhaust on the drivers side, there's obviously pressure escaping from where the manifold meets the block. Either way, once we figure out all of these other issues, headers are near the top of my upgrades list.

I discussed this with my father a bit, and we decided that this might indeed be the problem. We came to the conclusion that the thermostat may not be broken, but a malfunction just as well might be causing these problems. Perhaps it isn't opening when it's supposed to be? Or it's only partially opening? Since my father has informed me that it is a pretty cheap part and simple replacement, this is where we're going to start.

Everything is pretty normal. I'll check the spark plugs just to be sure. However, the exhaust is normal.

I'll discuss this with my father. Would overheating really necessitate an oil change? Or is it just a precaution? We checked the oil, and it seemed to be fine.

It already has a 4-barrel. However, if I remember correctly, the GS350's had better flowing heads. I think they might have also come with posi rearends as well. It is a 72 model, so performance is definitely lacking, however it does have lots of potential.

Thanks for the help guys, I'm heading out to the garage to try and figure it out.

Additional ideas and suggestions are definitely welcome. I'll keep you guys updated on the problem.

One last thing though, this car was equip with what me and my father have come to affectionately call "idiot lights." No temp, oil, or voltage gauges, just indicator lights. Something breaks, a light comes on. I don't think this idea was thought out all too well, especially because it appears that the water temp light doesn't even work anymore. I'd like to put at least a water temp gauge in it. I understand the basics on how I'd go about doing this, however would one of you be able to point me in the right direction of where I'd put/replace the temp sensor?

Thanks again! Back to work...

 

Well, it sounds like you have a few places to start!

But, before you get into it, a quick tuneup or at least a check of timing and carb settings can give you things to eliminate. I've had plenty (like 8) water pumps go since 1989- the Buick water pump was known to be problematic almost since these cars were new, from what one of my 'old timer' mechanic aquantainces tells me- and I can beleive it! All those belts on that water pump, and only the one bushing to support it.
What kind of fan does that have? Mine was a 2bbl, so i don't know much about the 4bbl 350s. Does your fan bolt to the water pump by a spacer, so it's rigidly affixed? or, is it bolted to the pump by a circular clutch housing that sits in front of the blades? With the clutch type, it will spin even when the engine is off and cold, under normal conditions.

On a car that old that has not seen a lot of maintenance, i would be pointing fingers at your radiator, thermostat, and pump on general principles. These things may seem or look fine, but can be all clogged up inside.

An easy, cheap attempt at a repair is a new radiator cap. Without getting too much into theory of operation of the cooling system just now, the cooling system is kept at higher than atmospheric pressure. Contrary to popular beleif, it isn't the job of the coolant to dramatically raise your boiling point- the pressure in the system does that. In all liklihood, you have a 15 psi system. try a new 15psi cap from Stant and see if that helps at all. Your boil-over temp, in case you are wondering, is 247*F if you have (and I would bet on it) a 15 psi system.

Idiot lights in your Buick are smarter than they seem. Take the "GEN" light for instance- it actually has three modes of operation, not two- Full bright, Half bright, and Off. This Half Bright state can actually help you determine the probelm your chargign system has if it comes on half bright when you are driving around. Turn your key to the accesory position- note that the GEN light is half bright- it is getting approximately 7 volts instead of 12 or none. Actually pretty slick, if you know what it means. I still like a mechanical water temp gauge, myself. i find my normal range is thermostat temp to 210*F. Don't try the old "yank the T-stat out" fix, by the way- that doesn't fix your problem. the engine should have no problem cooling with a 195* thermostat in 100* heat. if you need to try something like remove the t-stat, you are not addressing the problem.

I've had many many overheating issues with my '70 and I can assure you they are all fixable.

Water temperature gauge-

Extremely simple installation. It goes into your intake manifold where your electrical sending switch is right now- quite close to the thermostat housing. the wire, as i recall, is green.

Drain your cooling system- Buicks use a wet manifold obviously, and the t-stat housing and sending switch are not the highest point in the system. So if you just unscrew it, coolant will pour out. Messy.

Buy a mechanical gauge. Do NOT buy an electrical one. Mechanical ones are more accurate, and work when your battery dies or the car is off. The mechanical ones have a solid probe and an adapter to fit the bung in the manifold. Do not cut or break the probe "wire"- the gauge won't work anymore.

Simply get the gauge and a bracket for it, decide where to mount it, and put the probe through the firewall someplace. You may have to enlarge an existing hole or make a new one. Then route the probe up to the manifold bung and install it with a wrench! It's that hard.

Inside, choose a spot like under the dash in a place you can actually see the gauge- mine is a little obscured- I forgot that sometimes I turn the steering wheel You can rig up the light in the gauge to the fusebox in the time honored backyard hack manner- put the wire under a fuse for the lights. that way your light switch turns it on and off, and even dims you new gauge light.

 

:laugh: You should have seen me hopping around in the back yard with a chisel in my hand poking at the rats nest. At least you found the bugger before he rotted. I really soaked the back sides down with Fabreeze and left them out for a couple days until they dried. Petunia is no longer stinky.

o No: That's just what my Dad made me do. Maybe with todays better oils if it doesn't smell burnt it's ok? Did you use gunk out (or whatever it's called) when you did your basic maintenance? 15 years is a long time for oil to sit around in a motor.