I was watching these 4 bangers and 6 bangers blast out 1/4 mile times from 10 plus down to low low 7's. I couldn't believe it. Looks like the technology has really exploded. The fastest big block or turbo 6 I've seen running at the nats or anywhere else is not quite in the low sevens, but mid to high I think. o No: Is rice catching up? ou:
technology is making progress, but in all honesty all u gotta do is apply technology on a Big Block scale and yer set.
I don't care HOW fast they go or how well built some of them are. I still think they're junk and they sound stupid. When I see them on TV I keep flipping channels. No interest whatsoever. It may as well be a show on French poetry as far as I'm concerned. The only time I've gone to the track when they're gonna be out in force was at Englishtown's Detroit Muscle vs. Import day. We picked them off like shooting fish in a barrel! 1st round of eliminations we had a hundred of us against a hundred of them in one bracket. 2nd round there was ninety of us and ten of them! Hysterical!
consider this, say u buy a ricer, you have to drop about 3 grand minimum into that engine to get it running the HP that my GS came out out of the Factory with.
That's exactly how I look at it. Turbos, nitros...it just seems logical that if you apply the technology that it took to make a 4 cyl car run 10s to an 8 cyl car that it would naturally be faster. Maybe someday some of us can get together and put that to the test. An import vs. muscle car day would be a blast! I hope I can attend one of those someday.
That's true...you can squeez more power out of a v8 for a lot cheaper than you could to get the 6 or 4 banger could wish to have. Some of those guys run high shots of NOS and have the expensive high tech FI systems, etc etc, and the thing that helps them the most is the weight and size, those little ricers prolly weigh half less than what my '76 does, and it isn't a very heavy car. A majority of the Turbo 6's and BB don't use NOS or the highest effiency FI systems you can get, nor are they in cars that are as light weight as the rice. When you do the math, it makes more sense. :Comp:
You can make anything run with enough money in it. Those guys that are on TV have 30K in their motor. Car and Driver did a tuner test about a year ago and they would have 50K in there cars and only turning 13's. Pure race cars are a different story. In there little bling group they all think there cars are cool but I have never been in my nephews WRX and get the reaction my X does every time I drive it.
There are VERY few imports that run fast. It's like a lightswitch with them, either you're insanely fast or you're insanely slow, the difference usually being about $100k and a full tube frame chassis. I've seen GN's run in the 8's with full street trim (or at least looked like it) but no import can touch that without full tube chassis, sheetmetal all around and bottles of nitrous/huge turbo.
3 grand on my import nets me just a bit over 400 wheel horsepower and the same torque, and the torque peaks around 3600rpm ??? Not that I'd ever put 3g's into my import, but still. As far as the lightswitch deal I agree to some extent. My 4 is big (2.5L) and its flat, and flat engines have a tendancy to put out torque at a lower RPM and fall off at higher rpm's, so I've got decent pull even off the boost for an AWD 4 banger. It doesnt just punch like the Skylark used to, but its better than my girlfriends 1.8 jetta. As far as I know 8 second street trim GN's have a big turbo, too. Probably not AS big as the rice would need, but big none the less. There are DSM's (mostly 1st generation Talon/Eclipses) in Street trim that are running high 8's, but they have a big turbo and a roll cage (per NHRA requirements). I understand comments like what Doug made, and I fully respect them. Imports are pretty boring, all in all. I can't stand to watch the racing or to hear my buddies all talk about their 12 second Nissan 200SX (no, its not a myth, there really is one in my area). It bores me to tears, but what current big three (GM/Ford/Chrysler) manufacturer has a new, AWD car that runs mid to low 13's all day long, has bullet proof parts (hardened gears in all 3 differentials, semi straight cut gears in the transmission, and has all the parts except the rear axles to handle 450+ all wheel horsepower), and the reliability reputation that (in my case Subaru) some of these import manufacturers have? OK, so the regular WRX's have glass drivetrains, but mine doesn't :grin: AWD is a requirement for me - 90 miles a day in highway traffic all year with crazy NY drivers, then living pretty much in the mountains means I need something with great traction. The '03 Cobra was my 2nd choice, followed closely by the GTO... but both are RWD, and Im not a good enough driver to drive a 400+hp car in the snow with RWD, nor do I want to try to drive out of a middle of the door deep snow drift in said RWD car. I've done it in my AWD car. So, yes... import racing is boring, but they are getting pretty quick. The entire import scene is flooded with snotty nosed tean agers with a lot of empty space between their ears, but wasn't the muscle car scene the same way in the late 70's and all throughout the 80's? Think about the radical Dusters you saw with hugely tall rear tires and tiny front ones running 18's with its stock inline 6. Just my 15 cents, post was a bit longer than 2 cents. BTW, not trying to start a fire here, just putting up my import guards :laugh:
Just out of curiosity Eric, how would the 3 grand be spent to get those numbers and what are the numbers now? BTW, I'm not being a smartass here. I sincerely want to know.
Currently wheel horsepower (stock) for an '04 STi is 250, 300 at the flywheel. for 3 grand you get a UTEC (Stand alone engine management) 919.99 and a Forced Performance FP Green (Turbo) 1299.99 And whatever turbo back exhaust you want, we'll guess on the average at 500 dollars (stupid import exhausts are expensive). That puts you at 2719. That leaves 280 dollars, roughly, for tuning... which isn't a lot. So I guess I should say for 3500 dollars instead of for 3000 dollars. The UTEC has base maps that would get the car drivable at that point, then the tuning optimization is done on an AWD Dyno.
Eric - what about fuel delivery.....like bigger pump, regulator, and injectors ?? dont those need swapping too ?? .....again, just another curious person. My wife drives an '96 Impreza and I've been begging her to trade it in. Also, do you know any good Subaru sites to ask tech/mech. questions ?? Hers keeps intermittantly throwing a code for knock sensor and I want to know if its something simple I can do myself....where it is...etc. thanks :beer
I've never considered a well done import to be any less of an accomplishment than a well done muscle car. If somebody were to roll up next to me in an import that obviously has more money in the motor than the wing and body kit, that's cool. But I rarely see something like that. These days it's all show and no go.
I agree with Jake. Take their technology and apply it to an american made big block and you're still faster than them. NHRA rules applying of course.
A lot of those cars are full on tube frame cars that are not even close to being street legal. Some don't even have rear floors in attempt to save weight! Most of the bigger V8 cars that are that fast are at least close to being street drivable, where these will never make it on the road.. Sure, there are exceptions (I've heard many stories of 9 sec street legal, emissions legal talons/eclipses) but more often than not those guys are breaking axles, trannys, engines, you name it. So they're fast when they run, but then they're down for 9 months while the owner saves up enough for a new drivetrain. Power adders are proof you can make anything fast, just depends on how much money you have. Eventually, like it our not, our old V8's will be surpassed, but more often than not it'll be by modern V8's. Not little I4's. Perhaps HP numbers will be higher, but those little engines have very peaky power curves where the larger engines are flat, so it's slightly less HP for more time (read: the bigger engine will probably still win).
I couldn't agree more about how you "feel" about them. I can't stand them. I just watched it because I was too lazy to change the channel. (yes, I have a remote. I was VERY lazy) :error: FWD burnouts are like walking backwards up and escalator. Plain wrong.
This is true, but when you look at certain pro stock V8's, these ricers are not "that" far behind in ET's, and there's serious money sunk into those V8's too. Hey, I ain't no rice fan. I hate rice more than 90% of the guys on this board, just playing ricer's advocate. :error: :Smarty: :grin:
Very well put except its our technology they are using. The Turbo's, superchargers and Bottles are all American ideas i thought, Nowadays Asian countries are just producing them (isnt everything though). And if ya look even at street cars. You dont see me pulling the back seat out of my car to get more performance. Im sure theres alot of us that could go to the extremes that some of thouse import cars do, i personally dont wana look stupid stripping every part of my car off for weight. Sadly thats what alot of thouse cars have to do though. There is a considerble diffrence when riding in my friends honda with me and him or having four people in the car. I dont hafta worry about that in my GS, ive never noticed a big diffrence with people in the car. Where they worry about removing weight we just add more power to move it
Hey Alan, AT 400 WHP the injectors are maxed and could use to be upgraded, but to my understanding, not absolutely neccesary with a mild tune. Its a good idea and most people do the injectors and pump well before the Turbo ever comes along... Im just playing, as someone else stated it, the "ricers advocate". As for some tech related sites - might try 25rs.com or clubwrx.net (I know they are sites for the 2.5 RS and the WRX but there are a lot of people that know their stuff). There is also always NASIOC (north american subaru impreza owners club) but they tend to be pretty snotty most of the time. I'll ask on my local club board to see if anyone may know what it is. Do you have the actual code number? I'm also VERY close with the parts manager/service department/owner of the local Subaru dealer, so I may be able to get some tips from them. I completely agree that putting power adders on a bigger engine would produce more power. There is simply no question about that. I bought my car the way it is (riced out with a big wing, a big ugly but functional hoodscoop, and ricey gold 17" rims to clear the 13" front rotors) from the factory... only money I've put into it is gas (about 4,500 a year) and oil (dont even count it). edit: oops, and some 17" wheels for my winter tires.
