I picked up a new (only used on the engine stand once) Tilton Super Starter. I was elated because I have terrible heat-soak! However, it seems the Tilton will only bolt on when the starter is oriented so that the solenoid is on the bottom, facing the ground. Which normally wouldn't be a bad thing because it is well away from header heat, except that the 63 - 70 Rivs have the steering centerlink in an odd location due to the X-frame these cars use. And as luck would have it, the solenoid is millimeters away from the centerlink and the bulge in the link where the inner tie rod connects to it hits it when the wheels are turned. Even if the bulge didn't contact it, I'm not comfortable with the end of the + battery cable being only an eighth of an inch from metal. And the Tilton won't bolt up if the solenoid in placed on top as in the stock setup either, regardless of which holes in the mounting plate I use... one set puts the solenoid too close to the block, preventing the bolt holes from aligning, the other set of holes puts the solenoid too far outboard and it hits the header, again preventing the starter bolts from threading in. So, I wrapped a heatshield blanket around the factory starter, and I fabbed up a longer heatshield than I fabbed before, extending it far enough to shield as much of the wires as I could, as well as the solenoid. I'm just hoping I can start the stupid thing when it gets hot... I suppose I'll take to stocking a spare solenoid too... That's a wasted night of crawling under the car a hundred times I wish I could have back... So, that new Tilton is for sale... PM me for details... o No:
battery cables? Jeff, What size cables are you using? 4 guage or 2? Have you thought about trying some welding cable maybe 0 or 00 gauge, maybe more current would kick that hot engine over.
Something is wrong and it is not heat soak. You have: weak battery, wrong size cables, poor quality solenoids, too lean mixture causing your engine to run hot, cooling system not working right, excessive initial timing, etc. You need to find the problem and not concentrate on the solenoid/starter.
Jeff, Have you tried a known good factory starter? I had a no start problem when hot that was driving me nuts. Finally determined it was a bad starter that only acted up when hot. Turn the key with a hot motor and nothing would happen. Put on a quality rebuilt unit a year ago and it has never failed to start no matter how hot. Granted I am not running headers like you but the stock manifolds are pretty close and I have the factory heatshield in place. Keith
Too much initial timing is what always caused my stock starter to act up. But.. the Tilton won't take no for an answer regardless of timing. Back it off some Jeff and I'll bet your starting problems are solved.
Thanks all. Gary, the Tilton won't bolt up. The cooling system is perfect. Below 60* air temp I have to run cardboard in front of the rad just to get up to operating temp. It started doing this last summer, so it is possible the cheap solenoid I installed a couple years ago just got too hot too many times. It definately isn't running lean. Jetted way up. 00 battery cable. Initial timing is at 10*, and has never been a problem. When it is hot and I hit the key, I get NOTHING. Not even a click. Dumping water on the starter/header allows it to fire right up, but I've only done that 3 times and don't want to do it again. Battery is 2 years old, and turns it over no sweat. With the shorty headers, the corner of the solenoid right above the gear snout is only 1/32" away from the header. It definately draws heat from the header. I'm just not sure how much it is supposed to handle. Anyone know where to get a "real" solenoid? And not one of those Korean Pep Boys models? Thanks. I've already sold the Tilton.
No one has mentioned replacing the brushes in the starter motor. I had that hot start issue a few years ago. I replaced the worn brushes, cleaned up the commutator and it starts fine hot now. This worked on another car also.
Thanks Dale. Starter was rebuilt at the local starter/alternator rebuild shop. Old timer owns it. I had him do the HD setup to it. If need be I'll get it done again. We'll see if it still gives me problems after the heat shields and putting the old solenoid back in it. Anyone have a line on decent solenoids?
Also, make sure you have the Hi-torque starter. Indicated by a 1" long spacer on the solenoid tang that connects to the starter.
Yardley, I just bought one locally at a high end electrical shop. Small gear drive that really turns the 455 over fast. The solenoid is on top and has plenty of clearance on my GS. I am running TA Shortys. Around $80 too. It is about 1/3 smaller than stock. I would assume it would work on the X Framed Riv. You would call them. DB Electrical (800)753-2242. They sell on Ebay, so shipping is not a problem.
Sorry to hear the Tilton starter wouldn't work for your application!! ou: Jeff - I would suggest going with a *gasp* FORD remote solenoid on the inner fender. One of the few times the Blue Oval boys actually had a better idea.:Brow: Mark Madson (I think that's right) sells the conversion kits.....Summit probably does too. Basically, you're just running a bridge from the + batt. side to the solenoid terminal. That puts the control up to the much cooler remote solenoid on the inner fender (or wherever you decide to mount it).:TU: Sounds like you've already got good & thick cables. I always made sure I sanded all the connections & put dielectric grease on everything. Same goes for the battery terminals, posts, grounds, etc.!! Never had any troubles with a good Hi-TQ factory starter....even with headers. Keep pluggin'.....you'll get it!!:Smarty: :TU:
Got it. I'll see how it does now. Still hoping someone knows a good solenoid and where to get it?? Those cheap "overseas" ones aren't worth it. Thanks. And thanks Pooods. If need be...
Scott, You must have had better luck with those remote Ford type solenoids than I have over the years. I used to keep one in stock at all times to replace a bad one on the work trucks. Moisture, dirt, corrision, extended periods of non-use would spell the end of them every time. I tried the expensive ones with a little better success. I cursed them for many years and hope to never see one on a Buick.
Yardley....I remember having loads of starter problems with my 12.5-1 compression 455. The starters you get at the local parts store are built so poorly. Especially Poop Boy Starters. You'd be surprised how many of them come out of the box "new defective". My solution was to take my starter to a good automotive electrical rebuilder. My starter has been in the car for 10 years and only now am I starting to experience hot start problems with it. I know all too well the frustrations of working on a 68-69 Riviera! I love the picture captions in the service manual...."All except 9000 series" Everything is different. Jason
All except 9000 series. What a hoot. Yeah, my starter was gone over and rebuilt by the best auto electric rebuilder around. It has no problen turning over the engine, it's just when it is hot and the header heats up the solenoid...
