Need some thoughts about this 69 Riviera offer..

Beautiful car. I really liked the stance. But that non stock engine just killed it for me. I went from wow, this maybe worth it to nope, no way.

 

What is it about the engine that isn't stock? The intake and valve covers?

 

The car needs to be viewed with a magnifying glass, in other words, one has to go there and look at it.

The interior is nice, not sure about the vinyl on the seats. Don't know if they used a shiny marbled pattern in 69. Looks almost like modern "pleather". The engine killed me. "original", my a$$. The intake, probably the carb and those valve covers are a start. Then the PCV/oil filler cap that looked like it was stolen off some SBC at a car show. The paint on the firewall, rattle-can resto on the inner fenders, firewall, fan shroud, etc. has some alarms ringing. 45.000 mile cars usually don't have issues with that. Next thing; - was the car stored in a garage all of it's life? There's absolutely no fading. A car with 45K on it would have at the very least a slightly discoloured "45" on the odometer; - just because it hasn't moved in ages. With my old 1946 Super the first digit on the odometer was dirtier and more faded than the others; - just because the car had stayed at 43K for over 20 years. There is no dust or lens crazing showing; - it's been apart. 45 year old plastic doesn't look that good. Even my convertible which I took apart and detailed 10 years ago looks filthy again. The wood grain on the dash is showing no checks and crazing. I don't know one 60-70 Buick with that crappy applique that wasn't crazed or faded within 2 years of normal driving. That would be suspect. The paint is too good; - I had a 69 Buick Wildcat that colour, and there was no way I could even get it close to that kind of a shine, and I used to be a car detailer. So I'm suspecting it's been "cleared" at the very least, but chances are totally repainted. It also looks too perfect, and those paint jobs left a lot to be desired in 1969, I remember my Old Man complaining bitterly about them, saying that GM quality is gone. The vinyl roof looks perfect. There is no wear at all on that roof. There should be some discolouration after 45 years, regardless of how or where it was stored. Glues leach, vinyl fades or takes on colours, and even if it was stored inside somewhere there should be bubbling because those tops wicked water or moisture out of the air. Forgot to look at the pedals...

Anyway, you get the message. The car looks perfect, it's horribly overpriced, and it has been for sale for over a year now. That speaks volumes, and the only way to really know is to go and look at the car yourself.

Maybe I'm just too picky, but then again, I appraise cars on the side. Not one pfennig over $18K would I give on that car.

 

Disagree. My 69 (106000 miles, believe it or not) ($6000 purchase price) has crystal-clear instrument panel plastic.

The seller doesn't know if the top is original or not; it just looks original. It is, as you say, perfect. That's not really a bad thing.

It would seem to be (as we both said), overpriced, because if it wasn't, it would be sold by now.

Intake, valve covers, PVC Cap? I would not care. To me , that's not liking the tires.


I like it. If you would appraise it at $18K, the market for these cars must be in the toilet. I am not so sure that is the case.

 

The market for these cars never hit the toilet because they never had a high ceiling to begin with. I wish they were worth more, but the fact of the matter is they aren't. For a car that has a rare combination of performance and elegance, topped off with one-of unique styling, they should command more value. 2nd gen Rivs, especially 68-69 basically started my car bug. When I was a kid, we had 6 68-69s sitting around including the 68 he bought when he was 17. I learned to drive in a 69 (got nervous making a turn and broke the turn signal lever lol) I am partial to Rivs because of the sentimental value but they are not nearly as desirable as a GS.

I honestly feel it's a good thing that a beautiful example like the car on eBay isn't worth 30K+, it makes them much more affordable own and have fun with. Take a Riv for what it's worth and enjoy them.

This is just my totally bias opinion.

 

Whoa guys!

Yes, I low-balled that car. The reason is that it is advertised as an original when it probably isn't and until one knows the quality of the work done or views it up close to see if there is any quality in it. From the pictures it's absolutely gorgeous, - too much so in my opinion.

The second generation Rivis are gorgeous cars, I have no idea why they haven't "taken off" or are more highly regarded by car nuts yet; they have everything going for them. Gorgeous lines, loads of options, good performance, and good build quality. I'd love to have a 66 or a 67 model.

I think that those cars will finally "come into their own" in the next ten years; - the first generation cars are finally being recognized now, some 30 years after they were first suggested as "blue-chips". Hopefully I'll own a nice one by then.

 

I was sick, so i can get back to you just now...

Thanks a lot for all your replies! A lot of thoughts not only about this ebay offer, but also about common information about the Riviera and how to estimate the value.

I didn't mention that i'm living in Germany, so actually it's not possible to have a lock at the car in person... Maybe someone who is living near St. Louis can drive by, have a look and share his thoughts ;-)
I know that the price is really high (even higher for me with the whole import costs), but i felt instantly in love with this car when i saw the offer, looks aboslutly amazing. For me the car don't have to a 100% matching number one, everything that is good and nearly original restored is ok for me. Maybe sometimes it's even better than the original, becuase i want to drive this car, not only watch it standing in my garage (if i find one that is big enough ;-)). So the car i search should be in good technical condition, because I can't repair anything by myself.. sadly.

I also saw an intersting offer here in Germany, but because i'm new to this forum i don't know if i should continue to ask about your thoughts in this thread, or open a new one. Just let my now.
But in the meantime, here is the car: suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/buick-riviera-coupe-69-mnchen/203003693.html
Here some more pictures:


Let me know what you think of this. Like i said, if it's better to make a new thread, just let me know.

Thanks for all your support, this is really a great forum!

Best and greetz from Germany
Mucky

 

I think the USA car is a very nice car. If you want to know if it is as good as it looks, hire someone local to it to inspect it.

Adam Martin (smartin here on this board; look him up. I know Adam and I think he would be well qualified to look it over) would do it for you for a reasonable fee. There are also other professional car inspection services just an internet search away.

It looks like it will not sell at its asking price, so there may be be room for negotiation.

Good luck!

 

You'd be money ahead buying the car in Germany.

 

I had a look at the car in the ad, it's not a bad price and it looks like it is ready to go. The problem is it just says it's "accident free", nothing about a restoration or anything having been done to the car. If that car is still TUV ready, then go for it, because you can just about guarantee anything out of the US probably won't be. Also; - if that car has a km/h speedometer, 128,000 km is nothing, that engine wouldn't even be properly run-in yet. (approx 75,000 miles)

 

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/cto/4811312195.html

69 Riv - $9500

This is a beautiful Texas car with no rust, 430 c.i. wildcat V8 4 bbl. Quadrajet engine, 400 turbo automatic trans. Engine was rebuilt and runs excellent, trans. up shifts and down shifts smooth and firm. new dual exhaust. Black interior bucket seats with console, power/tilt steering, power brakes, am/fm wonder bar radio (not working) air conditioning all in tact but not working, new door and trunk seals, hideaway head lights, new Michelin tires. Beautifil green metalic paint.

 

FYI:
I just had a reply from the seller of the nice Riva on Ebay:
"The only things we know of that are not original are the valve covers and intake, which may have been done at the selling dealer when it was new. The paint, interior, chrome are totally original."

 

I cannot believe you guys are beatin' on this car.

So it's overpriced? I see that, but it sure looks primo to me.

 

Not bashing the car. Id own it if it was 20K less.

 

It's gorgeous, no question. It's just that it has a lot of the signs of being a total rebuild and is not an original car as it is claimed to be. When someone tells me "original", I expect original mileage, original paint, original equipment with all the warts and barnacles that can be expect on a car that is getting close to 50 years old. I have seen some beautiful "time-capsules", cars that were put away in almost hermetically sealed climate controlled environments that have a stupidly low provable mileage and established provenance to know that there's something bogus about this car. If it had been advertised as a complete frame-off (which is what it looks like it is) I could better justify the 30K asking price, - just because that would be about 1/2 of what the guy had into it to make it look like that. Besides, back in the day Rivieras were used and driven, there was o such thing as speculating on the collector car market, especially not with a Buick; they were just considered grocery-getters and cars that grampas would buy, they were not sealed up like Vettes, T-birds, or some others were.

I have a funny feeling this car was built to take part of an expected BJ style price revolution that never materialized because of the 09 economic crash, and now the owner wants some return on his investment. Is it a good car? It sure looks like it. Is it an original? I don't think so.