Ken says, "The suspense is killing me! I love this kinda stuff! Maybe I have a problem???? " Ken, I hear ya, but I will not finish the article, or release the info, until I get everything documented. There are going to be quite a few upset people out there if everything follows through like I think it will. Duane
Just to clarify, I didn't mean a problem as in the wrong shocks, I meant as in a psychological problem. :eek2: :Brow: Looking forward to your well-documented article. I'll keep my can of shock spray paint handy until then. Thanks Duane.
Ken, I think all of us "car nuts" have that problem, along with storage problems, parts finding problems, ............................. Duane
Duane, can't wait to see what you come up with. Always interesting stuff. If they used Monroe sensatrac shocks painted grey, my 72 will be 100 correct!! :laugh: later tim
Guys, All I need now is the 72 info for verification, and I can finish the article. It will be about the 69-72 GS/Skylark shocks. Duane
George: That conforms to the GM Dealer Master Parts Cat. Pics which shows spirals for all except wagons. There is a corresponding pic for spirals on the front but I will just post the rear.
Jim, You can post all the pictures you want, from any GM Assembly Manual, or from any GM Dealer Master Parts Catalogue. They will all show spiral shocks in the pictures/illustrations, as the majority, probably 99% of all the cars built had those type shocks installed when new. Why would Buick bother to do a separate drawing for that 1% (or less), obviously they didn't, because they called it out in the part number only. If you want to know the truth, you need to dig deeper they just looking at a picture from an assembly manual, and at the shock part numbers/codes that are listed for our cars, and assume, like everyone else did, that they were ALL spirals. I have gone that extra step, by looking at the original shocks that came off the vehicles, and matching them up to the info in the assembly manuals, and guess what, ALL the info matched. The part numbers for every shock matched what was listed in the assembly manuals, even for different assembly plants. I also checked the assembly manual info against original 69-72 build sheets and it also matched. Now trust me, I rarely open my mouth about something unless I can prove it, and I surely never defend myself like this unless I am completely sure of my facts. I have undeniable photographic proof of my findings, and am right now sitting next to some of the actual shocks in question. Some of these photos will also be included in the article. I am looking for more info for verification purposes only. Each piece of info I get just confirms my findings even more. Then I will submit my findings in an article in the BPG "Build sheet", and to the BCA judging committee, for consideration. This is not going to be a popular article with the show people, as it will show that a bunch of cars were restored incorrectly, but this is how we learn, and how we make our restorations better and more accurate. Duane
Duane, Got the shocks from the 72 Skylark w/49k original. Front and rear Delco shocks are date code 340 71 Front # 3192812 Rear # 3192813
These are 34 year old shocks. I can not believe they are in this condition. Must have been a granny car and garaged.
I would simply respond with the question as to why they captioned the pic as All except wagons. You still may be correct, but it is not just a baseless assumption as you suggest. I think you will agree that you cannot ferret out the truth about how they were built by just considering the evidence that supports your original premise. It is all just an honest debate and search for the truth for sure. I am just putting a few pieces in the pile for consideration. I am supposing that the HD shocks were not spirals is going to be the answer. I think I can lay my hands on an NOS one to look. According to the books these HD shocks would be 3188931 -- front 3197672-- rear In my experience the books have the truth in there 99 times out of 100. I suspect from what you say these are going to show up with a non -spiral case. I am ok with this voyage of discovery coming out with a spiral or non spiral answer.
Jim, I will agree that this is an honest debate and search for the truth, but I am not merely considering the evidence that supports my original premise. To be honest, my original premise, and what I always assumed was correct for years, was that all the cars came with spirals. It wasn't till a little over a year ago that some of the guys brought these non-spirals to my attention. At that point I started matching up the vehicle applications to the shock date codes/part numbers and began realizing there was a problem with what I always thought was correct. The actual parts that were taken off the cars were proving me wrong. Then I started looking to see where the change started so I could see how many cars/years were involved. I used the assembly manuals as the starting point for my part number info, as these were the actual books used by the engineers/workers putting our cars together. The part numbers from the shocks coming off the cars were checked against the numbers found in the assembly manuals and everything matched. This not only helped verify the shocks but served as a double check for the manuals. You talk of using the GM Dealer Master Parts Catalogues as they are correct 99 times out of 100. Well they were developed so the dealerships could supply "replacement parts" for the cars, and do not reference original parts. If you use their info you need to consider when they were printed, as the parts availability changed over the years, and sometimes the part numbers they list also change. You also need to verify that the numbers used were the ones stamped into the part and not the ones listed on the boxes. (Check out the Stage 1 carb and valve cover numbers and you will see what I mean.) You posted a picture from a GM Dealer Master Parts Cat. Pics which shows spirals for all except wagons. They often used pieces of assembly manual drawings as illustrations, but there is no way to know what year the pictures were referenced from, or if they were changed. The exception to this would be the 68 GM parts books. They are great for 68's because they were developed for the 68 cars and were published in 68. In the 70/71/72 assembly manuals they basically list both the wagon and Heavy Duty GS upper & lower rear control arms, and F & R shocks as being the same part numbers, not wagon only. I have no idea why the parts book does not match this. (Now this does not include the towing package, or auto leveling systems, for obvious reasons.) You state that According to the books these HD shocks would be 3188931 -- front 3197672-- rear Well that may be what the Parts book says but the actual numbers stamped into the HD shocks that were both listed in the assembly manuals, and were taken off original cars were 3192294 -- front 3192295-- rear These original shocks have been verified by date codes as well. If you have a 70 assembly manual they are listed on page (3-2.2). If you can find an NOS example of one of these shocks you will see what I mean. Jim, believe me I am not picking on you, the answers I am getting from my data are not what I expected. They surprised me, but as you can see I am being systematic in my approach. Duane
What you say is true however I have the original version not just the later revisions. I also have the assembly manual. Having looked thousands of parts of all kinds for various people I have to say that the books are correct 99% of the time or better. Most of the mistakes are operator error ( mine) in a misread or a misinterpretation of what was read. Based on this actual experience they are a much better reference source than you state. No one disputes that no one source is pefect.
Jim, I disagree about the percentage of correctness you can get from the parts books. Many people take the information there as Gospel and it isn't. The books were developed to be used for purchasing replacement parts only, and referenced parts that were currently available in the GM parts program at that time. To ask them to do more then that is asking for something they were not designed to do. Do me a favor and look up the part numbers for 70-72 Regular Duty Skylark shocks. The numbers that George Nenadovich took off the original shocks also match my info. I would also like to know what date book you are using. Here are Georges part numbers again, and please notice that the date codes from his shocks are also correct for that year car. Another thing to notice is that the numbers of front and rear shocks are only 1 digit off, as are the numbers that I listed for the 70-72 heavy duty GS shocks. That follows the trend I have seen for each type Buick shock used during our years. The numbers from your parts books for the same shocks are very far apart. George's info, "Got the shocks from the 72 Skylark w/49k original. Front and rear Delco shocks are date code 340 71 Front # 3192812 Rear # 3192813" Thanks for looking up the numbers for me. Duane
