Noses over at WOT when at operating temperature

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by Smartin, Apr 11, 2010.

  1. Smartin

    Smartin antiqueautomotiveservice.com Staff Member

    This is weird...

    I replaced my stage1 fuel pump with TA's Street/Strip mechanical pump a couple weeks ago, due to the stage1 pump not being able to keep up. It would get through 1st gear and it would nose over.

    With the TA pump, it will pull hard through all the gears without a hiccup. But if I've been driving the car for enough time to get all the fluids (oil and coolant) up to operating temperature, it will not even make it through 1st gear without really nosing over.

    Also, the other night I was driving home, and I could barely keep the car running without it wanting to die. That hasn't happened since then, but I'm sure it won't be the last time.

    Is there a such thing as vapor lock even with a return line? If so, how does one remedy the situation?
     
  2. 71skylark3504v

    71skylark3504v Goin' Fast In Luxury!

    Checked fuel pressure at operating temperature?
     
  3. Smartin

    Smartin antiqueautomotiveservice.com Staff Member

    I guess that should be my next step, eh? :Dou:
     
  4. 71skylark3504v

    71skylark3504v Goin' Fast In Luxury!

    It would surely be useful :Brow:
     
  5. Smartin

    Smartin antiqueautomotiveservice.com Staff Member

    Since I don't have that data yet, met me ask this.

    Why would it make a difference if it was up to temperature or not? I'm not talking 30 seconds after you start the car, either. I let the car warm up for 5 minute or so usually, and then drive it lightly for another few....that's when it responds great. But if I make a long drive of ~20 minutes or so, then it starts nosing over on me if I get into it.
     
  6. paul c

    paul c Well-Known Member

    i believe that vapor lock is due to excessive heat. i haven't ever had a car do it but that is what i think will do it. install a pressure gauge first.
     
  7. flatire

    flatire Well-Known Member

    I'm not saying it is but-
    There could be a lot of crap in the tank, and collecting around the screen while the pump is sucking.
    Falling away from the screen when you stop the engine.
    To test it, create the condition, pull over shut it off for a minute, start it and see what happens. I put a magnet in my tank and swished it around to see
    how much rust there was in there, none.
    maybe your tank is new! Good luck. Always go with the easiest solutions first, is what i tell myself..:blast:
     
  8. 71skylark3504v

    71skylark3504v Goin' Fast In Luxury!

    Not quite sure the of reason it does that. However, my engine has a permanent fuel pressure gauge and it reads a few pounds higher when the engine is cold versus hot. Maybe is something to do with the heat on the pumps regulator causes the pressure difference.

    If I was you, I'd find a rubber section of the return line and put a pair of vise grips on it. See if that makes any difference.
     
  9. John Chitwood

    John Chitwood Well-Known Member

    I would check the fuel line condition all the way to the tank.
    Had a issue like yours that was a half way pinched off 3/8 hose
    connecting the tank. Just another idea...good luck
     
  10. Yardley

    Yardley Club Jackass

    Smarty... in 1976 I had a '66 LeMans. 326 2bbl.

    It would nose over just like yours. Can't remember if it did it when cold or not, but the rubber line from the tank to the metal fuel line along the frame was dry rotted.

    Check that. Could be that when cold the rubber hasn't expanded enough to let too much air in. Yet when warm, it expands and lets air get in.
     
  11. Jim Rodgers

    Jim Rodgers Well-Known Member

    FIRST: Make sure there is plenty of fuel in the tank. Not being smart here, just covering the bases. Cant tell you how many bogs, vapor locks, bad carbs, bad fuel pumps etc I have cured by adding more fuel. :Do No:

    SECOND: Check the tank vent! If no tank vent, then check the cap, it should be vented. If the vent is plugged, then the longer the car runs, the more reverse pressure (suction) the tank will have. Easy way to check this is to run it a while and then remove the fuel cap. If it sucks in air when you remove it, then guess what?

    Then:

    Check fuel line from tank to carb.
    If you have a choke on the carb, make sure it isnt closing for some reason under throttle when warmed up.
    Check the carb inlet filter, if its clean then throw it away and get a free flowing in line filter. If its dirty, do the same thing. :laugh: Put the inline filter in the fuel line somewhere under the driver side door.

    Then get back to us! :3gears:
     
  12. bill lagna

    bill lagna Well-Known Member

    This is in line with fuel pressure, My 70 GSX would not make it to the 1/4 without bogging and surging (spelling). An old Buick guy told me to block off the return line from the fuel pump to the tank at the fuel pump. DID the trick , the return line was acting like a bleedoff , reducing the pressure ! Car went 11.70's after the fix !
     
  13. Smartin

    Smartin antiqueautomotiveservice.com Staff Member

    Ok Buick guys:

    When I was attempting to sleep last night, I thought of this....

    Secondary air horn spring tension...too loose or tight? I checked it this morning, and it is pretty loose, considering some of the other ones I've worked with.
     
  14. Michael Evans

    Michael Evans a new project

    I had the same problem thought I had checked everything.

    When I lifted the body off the frame I found the the steel supply line where it goes over the frame was bent almost closed.
     
  15. John Chitwood

    John Chitwood Well-Known Member

    To test the system I ran the car down the road without using the fuel line or fuel tank. I put a 2.5 gallon tank on the passenger floor board and ran fuel line through the firewall. If you leave the spout on the can 3/8 line fits snug. This was after changing pumps going through the carb a fuel filter and blowing air back through the line. Also I dont use a return line on this car.
     
  16. John Eberly

    John Eberly Well-Known Member

    Adam -

    Is the filter sock still on the pickup in the tank? When these fall apart they will cause starvation - and they all fall apart eventually.
     
  17. Smartin

    Smartin antiqueautomotiveservice.com Staff Member

    I replaced the sending unit about a year ago, and there is a sock on it...and it was in worse shape than the original one. Should I just cut it off?

    I really hate dropping that tank :laugh:
     
  18. Yardley

    Yardley Club Jackass

    You can remove the sock ONLY if you install a filter before the pump. It needs to be a hi-flow filter designed to be a "before pump" filter.
     
  19. telriv

    telriv Founders Club Member

    Socks are still available from GM. You need to find out if it's a 5/16ths or a 3/8ths line inside the tank.

    Tom T.
     
  20. Yardley

    Yardley Club Jackass

    Let's think outside the box.

    Coil?

    Throw a new NAPA IC12 (NOT #IC12SB) coil on there and see what you get. They're cheap.
     

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