I'm just curious, and thought maybe someone here could shed some light on things for me.... First some background.. I've been in the automation and material handling industry for about 14 years. I've spent alot of time in stamping plants, and some in injection molding plants. Almost all the dies in stamping plants actually belong to the auto manufacturer. (If a plant is stamping out GM hoods, the die belongs to GM) I'm not sure how it works in the plastics industry, but I'm under the impression it works the same way. First question.... Has it always been this way? Or "back in the day" did the stamping plant actually produce and own the dies? Which leads to my second question(s)... Whats the chances of getting our hands on some of the old dies? What happens to them? I know they have to be kept around for "x" amount of years by law for repair parts, but what usually happens to them after that? How do we track them down? The reasons I'm asking are obvious.... How cool would it be to stumble across the 66-67 Skylark rear quarter dies?!?! Or many other dies or molds as far as that goes. I have access to a full sheet metal shop and a few small presses that could possibly be rigged up to pop out a handfull of smaller parts in a weekend, or I even could talk with some of my better customers with large stamping presses and transfer presses about short production runs. With todays economy, plants that used to be solely long production run facilites, have started to search for any job even if it's only a 1 day run. Presses are expensive, and they're 10 times more expensive when they're not producing product. Well...I've rambled on long enough... Anyone know how to track down old tooling, or know what happens when old tolling isn't required to be kept? I wouldn't think they would melt them down for a penny a pound scrap rate?? :ball:
Alan Faircloth (buickal) has extensive experience trying to track down stuff like this with GM for our Buicks. Drop him a PM and I'm sure he can answer your questions on this topic.
funny thing since tooling dies are so expensive to make. companies almost never EVER throw them out. they generally get lost. or tooled into another tool (so recycled) You end up in some of the old forging/stamping factories around milwaukee you'll know what im talking about. large warehouses just for the dies. some from the 50's although they may get sold as scrap by a bank if the company goes under. or if the factory changes hands and generally cuts down operations. the problem lies if you can contact one of these companies who used to produce the product sometimes they've scrapped the machine that would punch/cast the parts and they forget that they have the die in house. since its in another portion of the building. or they are to lazy to look in the warehouse for the dies. Nate
For parts you want to know about, just send me the part number and the description and I will submit it to my GM contact to research and find out about the molds. Thanks, Alan
65 Parts too Al, I am interested in the fate of the tooling for this part number: 1365708 Gr. 8005 Mldg. Kit I'll look up a few more later. Mark
Several years ago I met a Plastic sale rep. He told me about a plastic injection shop somewhere south of Chicago. The owner had 4-5 semi trailers loaded with old dies. What the owner would do is when old part was obsolete he would send a check to the Auto Mfg for the die, and it was his.. Sales rep gave me some samples of the parts he casted. Just say WOW and don't ask who or where Because I never found out, name of company. He gave me samples of the 57-58 Chry 300 horn center, 1959 Buick horn ring center, 68 Mustang gas cap insert, T-Bird emblem for horn ring, and about 5 other car horn ring inserts. I thin the 68 part was the latest available. Rep told me that there were cardboard barrels filled with these plastic parts, all still New. So there are some of these dies still around, but difficult to locate. Jim Schilf / palbuick@aol.com
Re: 65 Parts too Can you provide a more detailed description of what it is? That would help. Thanks, Alan
Alan, sorry about that. It's the hood ornament for the 65 Skylark. It's two pieces, the ornament and the "stand". Mark
molds & dyes Sent you an email concerning a particular mold. Curious if it is laying around somewhere or been recycled. It would be for a 69 GS front grill. Part#9719111. There is a fair demand for this if we could somehow get these grills reproduced. Any help would be great.:beer
Re: molds & dyes We would all like to believe the molds for our specific car's grilles are to be discovered in a dusty warehouse somewhere, someday.... Not likely. Probably wouldn't be usable anymore, after all the pieces they turned out back in the day. If they were, we might have $100 grilles instead of $ ????.00 grilles, if they ever get reproduced, that is.
If anyone is up for a mold for a set of full 66-67 Quarter panels i can provide the quarters,i have a NOS set,i`d be willing so they can make a mold out of my set. Thanks
Let me ask this: how come all these repro companies didn't try and track down a pair of FULL quarters and make the mold out of them, as opposed to the half quarters most seem to offer? Is it because it's just too expensive? I'm unfamiliar with the process so please feel free to enlighten me....
Brett they dont even make patch panels nevermind quarters for the 66-67 GS`s,i know that there is demand for these quarters,i dont know how i am going to go about doing this but i need to find out myself,i wish they had quarters for 65-67 or replacement parts like they do for 68-72 GS`s. Thanks
Guys, I checked into having the 70-72 rear outer wheel houses done some years ago and was told by the steel stampers that one of the factors for die costs was the depth of the stamping. I was quoted a price of around $60,000 for the pair for full outers, but if I wanted just the lip areas it would be only $10,000 for the pair. Different depth, different machines. (PS. I figured no one would buy just the lips so I didn't go any further.) Thats why repro quarters are outer skins only, the cost to make a full one is cost-prohibitive. I am sure that patch panels could be made for the 66-67 rear quarters, but does the demand warrant the costs? For instance, could pieces from other 2-door or 4-door cars be used for patches? These are the alternatives we need to look at. The members on this board span the entire length of the country. You can't make me believe that someone out there doesn't know of some 66-67 or other year cars in junkyards that have good sheetmetal. We need to start recycling all the good 65-72 sheetmetal parts we can find and get them into the members hands that need them. Yes, it's a pain in the "a**" to trim a used quarter that was cut off an existing car, I am doing that now with a pair of 72 quarters. They will end up being full coupe quarters with the inner and outer wheel house and trunk drops attached. When installed, these pieces would repair the entire side of a car in one step. It's time to start recycling parts and not banking the future of our cars on the chance that original dies are still in existance and are in usable condition. And remember, the nicest thing about recycling original sheetmetal is that you don't need to worry about it fitting. I am sure I will hear some flack about this, but after some serious elbow grease I will have the body panels I need to save another GS/GSX and won't need to wait for someone to reproduce a pair of outer wheelhouses or find the dies to re-stamp them. Duane
George, That was for the dies alone. The full cost was around $100,000 and would also have included a minimum purchase of 1000 pieces each for the first batch. How many years do you figure it would have taken to sell 1000 sets? That's why I bought a nice skylark shell to get the body panels I needed. Duane
Guys I have spent a good deal of time in and around several different auto plants. It is very cool to sit around and talk to some of the old timers. They all say that the stamping dies are locked away some place. I have heard from several different people who spent a lot of time in Dearborn Assembly ( Mustang plant) that all the stamping dies are tucked away somewhere in a dark corner of that plant.
I always thought that GM probably destroyed those and thats the reason they never reproduced those quarters. Thanks
