No, it's alive & well, thus the snide remark. :grin: Very nicely written article in the other thread, by the way. Devon
Thanks . . . but let's get this back on track, shall we? It's interesting how many of the cars were targeted to the youth market, but this TV reviewer doesn't seem to be in tune like the magazines were.
You're right. It doesn't really matter what's cool. It differs from person to person anyway. It's obvious that the shows are a bit rediculous. I just think that the whole things sounds toung-in-cheek and the silly commentary and production makes them hilarious, entertaining and addictive to watch (to me, anyway). Even if the shows weren't done toung-in-cheek its great fun to think that some idiots thought they were being hip. Somehow, I want to play along and agree that they are being cool. They named the 429/302 Mustangs "BOSS" didn't they? I used to crack up as a kid when I'd see those old ads for the Schwinn bikes with rear slick tire and shifter referred to as "BOSS" in the Sears catologs. Did Larry Shinoda and Ford really think that was a cool name? ou: Figures. Larry was half-Japanese... probably thought Speed Racer was cool too... wait so did I... I'm getting confused... what's cool? Bud is cool, no... he's just a fool... right? Aww hell, Let's just shut up and enjoy the old footage fer cripes sakes... PS no, I don't feel uncool, although my 5 year old already tells me that I am. Wait till the little bastard finds out that HIS son thinks hes a dork. What goes around.. :bglasses:
I know what ya mean about the Boss - my dream car for years was a GTO Judge, and I *still* don't really understand what's so funny or groovy about "Here come da Judge!" And the Paul Revere and the Raiders commercial promoting the car? By 1969, they were old hat. While I value the judgement of Wangers & Co., and their print advertising has stood the test of time well in comparison to other print ads of the era, I don't think the TV commercials of the era have aged as well in comparison.
Whats "cool" to me is seeing those cars being driven, even hammered on, not pushed on and off trailers, and doted on like a prize poodle.
I am not one to stop someone from creating a trailer queen. I just think it's more interesting to feel the speed they are capable of.
so there's no excuse for Bob for not coming up to the next PS race. if i was interested in drag racing i'd go straight instead of turning left ( heh, that works both ways ) when i pull into Orlando Speedworld.
Diego, You had to be there! I don't think it's entirely fair to judge the ads in the light of todays world. Not everything we did then has stood up well or passed the test of time. The ads, like the cars are more of a reminder of our lives back then. These are more "Memory Joggers" than works of "art" to be judged by today's standards. Some of our music wasn't all that hot either, but we still enjoy hearing it, occasionally.
LOL. I'm with you on this. Pontiacs were my favorites when I was younger too. At one point I was all into 60s and 70 pop culture thinking that it was much better than whatever the early 80s was doling out. I was too young for Laugh In. When I finally saw that skit from the show I was all ready for the Judge name to be validated by whatever cool thing was going to happen... and then the line came... WTF?!?! THAT WAS IT? All of a sudden I got a mental picture of Jim Wagners with his fake mop and John DeLorean with his fancy GM suit... all these older guys trying to force what they thought was cool on the young'ns of the time. Oy, What a disgrace. At least Buick, save the one hiccup with the GSX and their fancy "supercar" colors, stayed true to not trying to be falsly cool. Fast with Class. That's all we really ever wanted... or should have wanted.
That's a good point. The relevance of pop culture is really vested in memories. My plaid pants will never look very good in the Super 8 film my dad took back when. It's kinda painful to see actually. Good memories though...
Oh, I'm in total agreement with you! Not everything ages very well over time - take the music I grew up with, for example. Some of it is so bad that they have to have "I love the 80s!" shows so they can be taken seriously! But as someone who works in a creative industry, I'm pretty well versed on styles in the past, and some things age better than others. I just feel the sensibility of Pontiac's print ads have aged better than the TV ads I've seen. On the other hand, films from the era have aged quite well - "The Graduate" being one of them.
Bud Lindemann (the host of Car & Track in the videos) was definately trying to be "hip" for his show. The "groovy" and "daddio" thing became cliche by 1968 when the reality set in (assassinations, political unrest, etc), but Bud seemed to hang on for a couple more years. If you notice that most of his 1970-up tests, he's really toned down the "hip" attitude, and simply uses synonyms for automotive slang terms (like "shoes" for brakes, etc.). If you look at TV shows from the era, Bud wasn't too far off. Heck, nearly every show from about 1966-1969 had episodes that featured hippies and their verbiage. "Batman", "Gilligan's Island", "I Dream Of Jeannie", "Get Smart", heck, even "Star Trek" had a hippie episode. By the time "Laugh-In" came around, the whole Austin Powers "shag-a-delic" era of fashion was on the wane, but hippie expressions continued into the early 1970's. Buick and Oldsmobile were marketed to a different audience, and they always had more toned down offerings from an aesthetic standpoint. But they're not without their over-the-top pop art examples either. The 69 Hurst/Olds is far more cartoonish and juvenile than the 69 Judge was. And considering the H/O was marketed to the 40-over crowd, it was really one of those cars that people probably laughed at when they saw their 45-year old bachelor neighbor, with dyed black hair on his receding hairline, and a silk tie, coming down the street hoping all the 19-year old girls will think he's "hip". The 69 Judge was marketed towards the under-30 crowd and sold very well, so the decals, graphics, and Laugh-In inspired name were accepted by the youth culture, while the 69 H/O was a sales flop. The 70 GSX was Buick's attempt at making a "hip" car for the 40-over crowd, but it too suffered poor sales because the 40+ crowd didn't care for the garish graphics and tack-ons that the youth culture enjoyed. It was sort of embarrassing to be seen driving those cars back then if you were over 40, yet the people driving them thought they were being "cool" and "hip". That being said, the 69 H/O, 69 Judge, and 70 GSX are icons, and prime examples of what the Musclecar Era was all about. :TU:
....and the Rallye 350.............. "Screaming Yellow Zonkers can make a man out of you.....maybe yes, maybe no........." .....and then came disco........
I'm a Pontiac guy, but I have to admit, while Jim Wangers is admired for his many successes (he was responsible for the success of the 64-69 GTO, The Judge, and promoted Pontiacs throughout the 1960's), he was also involved with Olds Rallye 350 paint/stripe package, and directly responsible for the "sticker car wars" of the 1970's, including the Ford Mustang Cobra II, Volare Road Runner, and Dodge Aspen R/T.
I don't think I'd call either the '68 or '69 Hurst Olds a sales flop. They were both intended to be limited production cars. Factory built, then modified off-site, they couldn't have produced many more if they had wanted to. About as cheezy as Olds got (apart from the Rallye 350) was their Sonny Bono look-alike "Dr. Olds." Prominent in 1969, and to a lesser extent 1970, at least the main thrust of that campaign was better living through science, as opposed to LSD. I've always thought that Oldsmobile's 1970 Escape Machine ads were cool. "Wouldn't it be nice to have an Escape Machine?" This slogan was accompanied with pictures of people whistfully dreaming of being not at work -- and presumably behind the wheel of an Oldsmobile. Timeless.
Brian: I've underestimated you all this time. I have intentionally "not gone there" on the Dr Oldsmobile campaign, and would probably offend a lot of people I have a lot of respect for on the Smothers Brothers racing team thing back then. Suffice it to say, like Jim Wangers, Olds had their marketing/promo people that got carried away with the "mood" of the times and moved in to capture what a lot of people behind the scenes had done and market it to sell more cars and also have a lot of fun on the company's tab. Kinda similar to when Ford Motorsports approached Bill Elliott in 1994/1995 when his Fords started dominating Nascar Winston (can I still say that word?) Cup without their "help".....(remember Reagan's words? I'm from the government, I'm here to help.). Elliott's reply was "Where were you when I needed you?".....but obviously the price of poker went up and all is happy for many years. Good topics for the parking lots at the Pure Stock/Martin races if I could ever get more Oldsmobile people there. No way I'd bring any of that up on ROP or at the OCA (but I repeat myself there). It was all for the good, especially in Lansing. Stempel had already pulled the best away from performance and hot rodding an had them working on emissions by then. Mike's comment was on the 69 Hurst as compared to the 68. The 68 was very subtle as compared to the flashy 69. I used to not like the 69 at the time until the Rallye 350 came out. Then the 69 Hurst started looking pretty good, and is dynamite today.......and I think the Buick GSX is one of the neatest looking packages of the times now. There I said it, now I'm going to wash my mouth out with soap. Shoould have seen the Olds "Mod Rod" and a few other show cars they built back then to stir up the interest.....(and maybe they won't notice that a Delta 88 4 door could blow away a 442 for a coupla years there.) :bglasses:
Brian, My "sales flop" comment was based on a Hurst document, stating that they were prepared to build up to 2500 1969 H/O's. They provided a sliding scale with a discount percentage (back to Oldsmobile) based on number of units ordered. Granted, the 68 H/O sold out quickly (no doubt in part to the speciality of a 455 being available in a GM A-body), but I believe Hurst was prepared to sell in excess of 1500-2000 1969 H/O's if the orders came in. Part of the 69 H/O drop off could be attributed to the late 1969 production run (March-May 1969), along with rumors and magazine articles of all new 1970 A-bodies coming, as well as the GM mandate of 400+ cube engines being lifted for 1970. As for Dr. Olds being a little "strange", it wasn't as strange as seeing a man in a tiger suit power-shifting a 66 GTO down the dragstrip. Mike
Sales Flop?????? Okay, now you've done it!!!!:moonu: What is the term,"Keep them wanting more!" Yes, Olds could have produced more, but again, it was a very short run for these cars and they were not cheap cars to build and sell. My car, with its options, was about par with a BB Vette of the era. Only difference was that mine could (and does) have air conditioning and I could carry 2 more friends (or go on a double date... not like the Vette owners had any friends anywayuzzled: ). Do I also have to remind you that they were breaking the GM rule of 'Nothing over 400 cubes in an 'A' body.' The next year's W-30 cars were influenced directly by the Hurst work. The aluminium intake on the '70 was a direct outtake of the cast iron piece on mine. OAI, rear wing, dual gate, and a few other mods were first tried on the '69 H/O. And Dave is not alone, as much as I love Olds, if a '70 GSX in Apollo White freed up, I would have to really do some sweet talkin' to my honey about 'investment opportunities'!!
I dunno . . . I like Doctor Oldsmobile, but then when you start speaking about Wind Tunnel Waldo, it starts getting to be a bit weird. The Frankenstein character is almost too easy, as it's borrowed interest, but they did it with a bit of LSD to rival some of the Plymouth ads of the same year. And, if you think about how Olds wasn't a real player in the musclecar sweepstakes (in comparison to Chevy and Pontiac), the Dr. Olds campaign is kinda ballsy, as neither Chevy nor Pontiac had a unified campaign. The logo with the peace sign was the feather in the cap, and I think that was the only part of the campaign that managed to age decently. I bet if I showed my advertising friends, they'd look at Dr. Olds and go, "Huh?" I still think Pontiac had the most consistently good ads of the era.
I thought AMC ads (at least, the few that I've seen) were decent. Plain text with interesting car pics. They could have used a less effeminate looking fellow for the ad with the two Trans Am versions of the Javelin though. I'm kinda glad they didn't follow through with that "Up with the Machine" hippie logo... or did they actually use it?
