Havent posted on here in a while, but i still lurk around and catch up on my buick reading once in a while....:Smarty: I dont own a buick at the moment, but my buddy's 69 olds cutlass needs a make over. We are trying to do a very tasteful, old meets new (or rather oldS meets new) haha.... modification. I have a little bit of chevy in my blood, kind of a distant second great uncle, who was 1/16th chevy, kind of deal, so nothing serious, but i know what a T56 is, not sure if many of you are familiar with it. Its the 6 speed transmission that was available in last generation of camaro, trans ams, mustang GTs, the viper, and possibly the corvette before it went trans axle. As you can imagine, a 69 cutlass 350 rocket, never came with a 6 speed, so there are one or two issues. I have resolved most of them, except for the flywheel. The T56 has a special "pull" style clucth that was used in very few transmissions. As a result, the flywheel spacing for a T56 is not the same as a 4 speed flywheel spacing. ie: they arent the same thickness. Would anybody be able to help me figure out what specs i need to make this work? How to calculate it, what to measure etc.... I will basically have to call centerforce, or a reputable machine shop to have it done, but i dont know where to start.
Afraid I can't help there. You might try one of the Olds engine builders like Dick MIller. They may know of someone who did the same thing.
Just wanted to post an update here. My freind and I have been researching this to death, and we couldnt get a hold of anyone from centerforce. However, i found a website called Weir Products, for hotrods. This fellow used to make custom bellhousings, that accounted for the input shaft length differences, and a "plate" that self alligns the pilot bushing/bearing to the trans without the use of a trans. We spoke to him over the phone today, and he claims, his "kit" is a direct conversion from a muncie to a T56 6 speed manual transmission. I find it very hard to beleive. But he warranties it and everything. He also now has kits for BOP series, and possibly mopars. I did this conversion in my identity crisis 87 firebird not too long ago, and the problem i ran into was going from a 1 peice rear main seal transmission to my older 2 peice rear main seal SBC. Luckily they had an aftermarket flywheel for that. We are gonna give this Weir fellow a try, it seems fairly simple, because he claims we can get away with the stock flywheel, because of his special bellhousing...... Ill keep you folks posted, incase anyone else is interested in trying this swap.
Have you looked at this web site?? http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/t56_early_gm.html Says you can use a regular style clutch. Dont know the specifics, give them a call.
I believe Chili went through something like this when he put the 5 speed in his 68....???? OOPS, forgot Chili is on the Olds ROP site. See: http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=439739#439739 Thais site is the best for help on Oldsmobile stuff. Unfortunately, there are clowns there, and at times you need thick skin.
I've come close to quitting myself, but I have so many friends through the racing end of it over many years. I get real tired of the clowns on there with multiple screen names. That one idiot in NJ has about 5 and only comes on there to cause trouble. He must have a miserable life. He actually makes posts and uses a different id to answer himself. That's pretty bad. Usually these guys go away after a while if you ignore them, but this one is like hemorrhoids.
It is quite funny how he only comes around to "stir the pot". I find it truly amazing that he has any customers.
I don't know about the T56, but a Tremec TKO500/600 5-speed will bolt up to the stock bellhousing and use a factory style clutch and flywheel. The clutch will need to be a later style with a 26 spline disk. I used a centerforce dual friction. The main problem with the TKO transmission is the size, and A-bodies don't have the biggest transmission tunnel. Some hack up the tunnel, but it will fit if you lower the rear mount about an inch. I had a new crossmember made at a chassis shop, but if you have good fab skills you could probably section the original. You'll need to move the crossmember back also, since the TKO is longer than the original transmission. The TKO's use a Ford C6 yoke, so plan on swapping that on when you have the drive shaft shortened. The shifter location is fairly close to stock, but you might have to cut the tunnel a little bit anyway. I had to move the center console and make new mounts, but it's not too noticeable. If this car didn't originally come with a manual transmission then you're going to have to cut off the end of the input shaft or drill then end of the crank for clearance. Well, that's the basics.
Ok, thanks for the post chilli. I have a few more questions for you. i think we are shying away from the T56, because the LT1 style or LS1 chevy style, will only hold 450 lb-ft of torque or so without modification. Thats the cheapest route to go. However, a 455 that will propel this street trim/ all steel car to 12.0 ET, is also in the works. No doubt that torque will be a little much for the T56. The viper T56 is quite pricey, and it has a final ratio of 0.64, same as the TKO 600. So we have opted out the T56, because its bigger, and the parts are more expensive, and are now looking at the TKO 600. It seems to be offered in kits that make it a complete swap into an olds. The route were going here is a "do it right the first time", and we never want to have to take this transmission out again. With 12.0 et, and probably going to be upgraded for a close to 11.0 second car, it needs to stand up. The TKO 600 from the 5 speed transmissions website was explored above. We will take everything they offer, except for the offset, and the total price was $4870 before taxes and shipping to Canada. Another kit that we explored is, the Keisler kit. They seem to offer more with their kit, with a price tag of about $4900. Which is more expensive than the one above, but if you add all the parts needed for the conversion it adds up to about the same. As far as kits go, im sure we have all experienced a 100% bolt in kit, that doesnt always fit and requires alteration. Do you have any input on this chilli? Also, what do you think about the $5000 price tag? My freind is having a hard time getting his head around that figure, considering thats how much he paid for the car, and the 455 he is having built, is only going to cost around $3500. We were thinking about maybe getting a used TKO, and just buying the absolute essentials for the TKO transplant from keisler to cut down on costs. But it still adds up to about the same. In any case, could you elaborate a bit more on the crank modification? It is an automatic car at the moment. Rocket 350. 1969 block, heavily modified around the early 70s, right out of the factory. Was basically built for the dragstrip.
I can help you on the crank modification as that's very common in converting to a stick shift. Basically, Olds didn't machine the rear of the crankshaft to accept a pilot bearing and provide clearance for the nose of the input shaft of the transmission. 95+% of all Olds V8's have been auto trans cars and didn't need this extra cost. No modification to the trans input shaft is required this way. I'll cover that below. This machining is detailed in the Mondello tech manual and I believe also, in the FAQ section of 442.com. It's a very common conversion. It consists of a deep hole drilled in to clear the nose of the trans input shaft (not close tolerance on diameter as it's just for clearance) and it requires a larger diameter "step" to house the pilot bearing in the crank. There are two types of pilot bearings: a sealed roller bearing type like the factory, or a bronze bushing that's driven in with a slight press fit. The roller bearing requires very close alignment and centering of the trans to the crankshaft. That's always a good thing to check on stick shift conversions, especially with steel Lakewood bell housings (scatter shield). Since you're into the engine anyway, your crankshaft grinder can drill out for the pilot bearing easily on a lathe. There is a short cut way as Chili was referring to above that's used a lot if the engine's not apart, expecially if still in the car. It doesn't involve any machining of the crank. A special bronze pilot bushing is available from most of the Olds aftermarket and performance guys (Supercars Unlimited, Dave Smith Engineering, Dick Miller racing, and Mondello). It has a knurled outer diameter that seats in the auto trans crankshaft. The second method will work, but I'd highly advise the first one with the crank out of the engine. Especially with a high horsepower application. Probably acceptable if you had a wimpy Buick 350 or an Olds 260 or 307. :spank: :laugh: I just have a hard time justifying chopping up a big $$$ transmission, (even Muncie's are close to a grand now for M20/21) especially a Tremec or Richmond. The crank machining should be less than $100, especially if it's already chucked up for any other work. :bglasses: BTW, you should see Chili's 68 442 convertible. His Dad bought it new with a 3 speed. It now has the 5 speed, a fuel injected Olds 400, neat aftermarket wheels and the brightest prettiest dark Blue paint I've ever seen offset by a snow white hat. He drives it everywhere.
