Anyone ever see Bryan Sharer's Montzilla at any of the Buick vs Ford events? (Or tooling around DFW?) 351, stock looking, E303-ish cam, Dart iron heads, reversed headers sporting two GN T3s, blowing into a Holley 600 DP carb. No intercooler. Ran 9.86 in the 1/4. Surely this can be doen on the 350s... Since I have two WH1Cs in the garage and a couple of new cars with Buick 350s in them, maybe I'll have to give it a try. Jason 70 Wildcat Convertible 70 Cat 2dr 68 LeSabre 72 Riv 73 Riv 86 Turbo T Skyhawk<-- HX25 Holset, Conquest I/C :laugh: 89 Turbo Caravan (for grins and funnies):eek2:
I have long been interested in putting a turbo (or 2) on the 300, seems natural looking at the olds 215 turbo and the GNs. I liked what ignitionman said, about driving the compressor with a belt, but the drive ratio needs to spin it faster. That's why I wondered about driving a compressor with flywheel ring gear, rather than the gear or belt reduction in a powerdyne or vortech blower.
Did you guys see the 78 Monte with a big block and turbo in the Hot Rod (Feb. 2004)? Wouldn't a setup like that work?
Just to stir the pot a bit: Any of you remember Smokey Yunick's turbo 209 Chevy Small block Indy 500 car? The one with the turbo "impossibly" far away from the engine? Seems Smokey figured out that if the pressurized air/fuel had to travel through a long connecting pipe, the pipe itself acted as a low cost, low weight charge cooler. Smokey ran a Holley carb calibrated for methanol. At full tilt, the incoming air pipe had frost on the outside. Evaporating all that methanol fuel cooled the air charge below 32 degrees. Yeah, the application was a lot different: Indy car, high RPM, never-off-the-throttle, and of course the carb was a suck-through, so the evaporating fuel had a cooling effect you wouldn't get with port EFI. I'm also mindful that Smokey couldn't make reliable power- It ran BALLS OUT, then choked because the fuel curve couldn't be made right. First guess: the indy car generated more G-forces than a Holley carb could deal with, especially in '71 or so. Personally, I'm curious to see how well a turbo near the rear bumper works.
I've seen threads on this on other sites. On Turbomustangs.com, some people said it wouild never work, while some others said they had seen it work. Here's my take on it: I agree that the long exposed pipe coming from the compressor to the engine would cool off the intake charge, acting as an intercooler. However, remember that the exhaust also has to travel that same length of exposed tubing, meaning that it will cool down (and slow down) as well. That's bad, because you want the turbo to have as much energy (heat and speed) as possible to spin the turbine wheel quicker. Stainless steel and/or ceramic coated tubing will help the exhaust gas retain some of the heat, but it still won't be as good as having a turbo hanging right off the exhaust manifold. My theory is that a rear-mounted turbo would be good for a race car, but less than ideal for a street car. With a race car you don't need to worry about how fast the turbo spools at low rpm, because the engine never sees low rpm. Having more weight at the back of the car instead of the front is also beneficial and potholes or dirt wouldn't be an issue on the track versus on the street. Having the turbo out fo the engine compartment would be nice, especially in a tight engine bay like that Camaro, but there are people who have managed to squeeze in turbos much closer to the engine so like I said, I would save the rear-mounted turbo for race cars.
I too thought this turbo setup would be a laggy slug but after seeing a couple of Camaros run with this setup and seeing a V6 Tacoma smolder 35" tires with the same style setup I was convinced that it works pretty good. This guy (Rick Squires) works just a few miles from my house so I see his work fairly often. Bottom line is if you choose the right turbo for the application it will work,while having the turbo that far back isn't the most efficient, it does overcome some of the difficult and expensive problem that come with a standard turbo install.
While I'm no turbo guru, I REALLY don't feel this solution is needed for a single turbo setup. I think it's safe to say if you put the turbo on the driver's side of the 68-72 Skylarks, you'll greatly reduce fitment problems. I think we have plenty of room. K.I.S.S.
KISS? IF this is a race car, then ditch the AC box. Run a pipe off of the crossover and mount the turbo in that area. Exhaust downpipe goes down the passenger side fenderwell. Jason
K.I.S.S. = keep it simple stupid. I agree keeping the turbo close to the engine is the most efficient set-up if you have the room.
Making it a race car would make it very easy without all the extra crap in the way. However, mine won't be. As I live in AZ, it MUST have a/c ! BTW, I don't have power brakes and I think it gives me even more room to run the outlet from the turbo on the driver's side too. I also would have picked the word silly for the last letter in K.I.S.S. :3gears:
Sorry, I know what KISS means...I was aksing a question...as in "So, you want to keep it simple, stupid?" It never ceases to amaze me how much overengineering people put into systems/components/etc. I've seen debates on the affect of the rod/stroke ratio on low HP street cars, and I'm thinking...man, just learn to launch the car right, and you'll MORE than make up for any possible extra HP you would get from the optimum rod ratio... BTW, the best bet on the turbo (without hacking the AC box)is...adapter plate to "flip" the manifolds. Cut the passenger side outlet and rotate it 180*. This way, both manifold now point down (It will also clear the AC). Crossover to the drvier side front fender. Mount the turbo there. Dump the downpipe between the DR exhaust and the master cylinder. As for specific turbos, an HX35 or the earlier WHIC is a great choice for this application... Use a cutoff fire extinguisher with a welded on tube for the carb bonnet. Run a holley 650 DP, richen up the secondaries. Dual port vacuum advance (either from Accel or modify a mid 70s F*RD unit)--this will allow you to run a nice advance curve, yet back it off under boost. You can also wire in an inline FI fuel pump and a volkswagen coldstart injector (or 2) for added fuel, if you are concerned about running lean... 8# boost, on an 8:1 CR motor, ported heads, mild cam, TA intake-- 421.32 HP at 4966 RPM. 12# boost= 488.1 HP 16# 504.00HP. Later, Jason
I see you've thought about how to do the low buck method (just a little), Greens. p That is pretty simple. The funny thing is my plan isn't too different from your idea. :beer
Done more than thought...while I haven't turbo'd a Buick 350 yet (next project), I have helped design and wrench a twin turbo blow through 350 Chevy motor...have all the parts to turbo the Buick (ok, all the parts to turbo 6 or 7 Buicks), just have to find the time. Had a GN, now I run an 86 Skyhawk Turbo T Type with a Holset HX25 and an FMIC. For grins and funnies, I have one of those Turbo Dodge Minivans...
I always thought those Skyhawks would be fun turbo cars too. Hard to find them in AZ though. As for the minivans, that's sick... in a good way :grin:
Not to drag this thread into a minivan discussion but...the Mopar turbo'd vans are impressive! A friend of mine here has a 89 Caravan that has run 12.69 @ 106. He also has a 90 Caravan that is the current NHRA EF/SA Stock Eliminator record holder. There's nothing like turbocharged power. I love the fact that a lot of the faster NMCA racers have gone from Nitrous and Blowers to turbochargers.
His name is Terry Ryan. He goes by 'gasketmaster' on some of the message boards. A title he got from eating a couple head gaskets on a 10.20-ish Buick GN he used to own. He's only been playing with the vans for a couple years. He is the kind of guy who goes to sleep each night thinking of ways to make whatever he races go faster. I expect to see him in the 12.00's with the van before he's done.
