piston and rod alternatives

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by B-rock, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. B-rock

    B-rock Well-Known Member

    getting ready to order the 482. forged pistons and rods from TSP.

    My question before I do, is there any alternatives that maybe Im missing.
    I know TA Performance has pistons and rods, but they dont seem to be doing the zero deck thing?? Or am I mistaken? any real reason not to spend the extra $125 ish bucks and step up to the diamond pistons?

    Not building a race motor, Fuel injected street/strip
  2. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD"

    The zero deck thing is simply pistons with the correct compression distance so that you don't have to deck the block excessively which is not only costly, but potentially weakens the block. Anyone building a BBB would be very foolish, IMHO, not to take advantage of the availability of pistons like that.

    There are no downsides to zero deck no matter what level of engine you are building. Better efficiency and maximum detonation resistance are very important.
  3. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    X2 and for only 125 more it's a good step up, the better pistons will be more tolerant of knock and ping in street, they maybe lighter, but your going to have to have the assembly balanced anyhow, and yorsays street........but plans do change, not sure if your getting flat tops or dished, but flats on iron heads might get touchy on pump gas. So if iron heads go dish, it al head you should be ok with flats. But talk to me about your plans and get his opinion.
    B-rock likes this.
  4. B-rock

    B-rock Well-Known Member

    I have a dissembled 72 block, not sonic checked but was a very good runner last fall. TA stage 2 SE heads, unported. Plan on going with a holly Fuel injection, I have the TA timming cover, romak balancer SFI flex plate, ARP head bolts, and TA teflon coated cam bearings. Now im ready to order pistons and rods, My machinist cautioned me on using the diamond pistons and molnar rods, said they may be ok but he recommends another XYZ brand. (conversatin wnet something like those are cheap parts and ill do better with a better name brand) Who am I to argue with his point? I look at TA perfomance and I dont see them offering the TSP 482 setup the way Jim builds it.

    So I guess it comes down to making the best parts work the best for me. Looking for guidance. and as long as Im building this id like to do it the best I can within a reasonable budget. Sooooo.... If I dont order pistons and rods thru TSP, or TA, then who DO I go thru?

    engine will be going into a 65 skylark, most likely turbo 400 but a TKO 600 if I can swing it. I have a quick performance ford 9" in the rear with 3.50 gears. also a mini tub might be in my future. I need a very realiable engine, driven mostly on the street with some drag and more road coarse type racing for fun. (maybe LOL)
  5. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD"

    Order the pistons and rods through Jim at TSP. There is no one better and more familiar. I can't imagine why your machinist would say that unless he gets a kickback on XYZ parts. I'd go there and call Jim and let your machinist tell Jim that.:) My engine has been together for 7 years now and never fails to put a smile on my face. It has Diamond Pistons and Eagle rods. If I was doing the engine today, I'd go with the Molnar rods. Everything I have read about them is positive.
    446370 and B-rock like this.
  6. B-rock

    B-rock Well-Known Member

    Thank you larry, That puts my mind at ease. Ill be ordering them this week.
  7. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    I have molars in my 464, right out of the box when we weighed them there was less than 1 gram between all 8 rods, when I checked sizing right out of the box there was only .0002 from the largest to smallest. Pulled all 8 apart and retorqued still no change in size in any rod. All 8 measured again, they measured the same size as b4.

    They use custom made arp 2000 series cap screw, made special to their specs.

    For the money I think they will be a very hard part to beat quality and price.

    My motor lives shifting 6500 and I would not worry to go above 7000 any time I wanted with them
    sailbrd and B-rock like this.
  8. 87GN_70GS

    87GN_70GS Well-Known Member

    My 482 recip assembly from TSP has the Molnar rods and 4032 Autotec pistons
  9. Julian

    Julian Well-Known Member

    That's great to hear about Molnar rods! I wish they did crankshafts
  10. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    I bought my pistons from Jim. So far so good.

    Your machinist may have a great relationship with another piston manufacturer who can make a similar piston. Maybe better quality and maybe not. Custom pistons are no big deal. I'd be surprised if you can the same quality for a better price.
  11. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Typical machinist talk,..your ideas are stupid,..your parts are junk,...now give me money and go away
    sailbrd and B-rock like this.
  12. B-rock

    B-rock Well-Known Member

    Thats what my original thoughts were, but as with everything I need to get a second opinion.

    but everyone sells less then primo quality stuff, I even read on here that TA has a couple products you want to stay away from. It makes it hard to know what is what without asking.
  13. TA Perf

    TA Perf Member

    The TA 1611 JE flat top have a 1.995" compression height with a .990" pin now. We just changed the pin diameter because of how many TA Eagle rods we sell and the bushed rod is sized for the .990" pin. We can open the TA rods to the 1.0" pin when requested. NHRA TA Sportman rod is .990" as well. The TA1611B SPHERICAL 20cc dish piston has a 2.0" compression height and retains the 1.0" pin at this time for stock rod use and TA Eagle press fit use. I raised the compression heights some years ago so zero deck could be managed with minimum machining. Jim Weise wanted to purchase them as well like that. Our pistons have a lot of options machined into them.
    1. Reduced Contact Area, reducing drag on the piston.
    2. Accumulator Groove, displaces compression gasses that cause ring flutter.
    3. Double Pin Oilers, two internal passages from the oil ring direct oil to the wrist pins.
    4. Oil Return Holes, in the ring groove return excess oil through the underside of the piston. This feature helps cool the piston.
    5. Ccontoued Skirts, unnecessary material removed to make the piston lighter.
    6. Cam Ground Skirts, greatly reduces stress on the cylinder walls, has been attributed to reduce cylinder wall cracking.
    7. Valve Reliefs, refereed to as the TA Combo, these reliefs accommodate basically all the available cylinder heads produced today.
    8. Spherical Dish, has proven to make more power than a flat bottom dish, per JE
    9. Wrist Pins, included w/ Dbl Tru-Arc locks for easy install. Dbl Spiral locks can be used in place of dbl tru-arcs

    Don't lose out on some additional features that really do make a difference in the power and durability that your combination is capable of. Many of these features are omitted from other piston manufactures pistons. Additionally, these features usually are expensive options, but we have worked diligently to make them TA Perf standard features.
    sailbrd, B-rock and TexasT like this.
  14. B-rock

    B-rock Well-Known Member

    Very great info, what would you recommend I run for a 10-1 to 10.5-1 compression ratio in your pistons/rods? will that zero deck my block? or Do I need to shave the top to get a zero deck?
  15. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD"

    The above question is unanswerable. The static compression you run depends on the cam you choose. Pistons with the better compression distance will get the piston closer to zero deck where a clean up cut to the deck makes it zero deck. These are questions you ask your machinist after he has inspected your block and measured it. Depending on cylinder wall wear and taper, your machinist recommends an over bore so you can order pistons.

    Aluminum heads need at least 10:1 compression, and maybe higher depending on the cam.
  16. TA Perf

    TA Perf Member

    65cc TA Stg2SE head, -020cc Spherical dish pist, .040"x 4.400 head gasket, .010" down, clevis figured in = 10.62:1 approx.
    If your block is not decked, stk dk ht 10.570", piston should be .020" down with this combo. Same as above but .020" down = 10.39:1
    .010 deck w/.027 gask = 10.95:1
    .010 deck w/.030 gask = 10.87:1
    .010 deck w/.040 gask = 10.62:1 .020 deck w/.040 gask = 10.39:1
    .010 deck w/.045 gask =10.50:1
    .010 deck w/.051 gask = 10.36:1
    .010 deck w.065 gask = 10.05:1

    Zero deck w/.040 gask = 10.86:1
    Zero deck w/.045 gask = 10.74:1
    Zero deck w/.051 gask = 10.59:1
    Zero deck w/.065 gask = 10.26:1
    We also stock the Cometic gask, .027, .030, .040, .045, .051, .065, .074, .120 x 4.400 bore
    Using TA Stg2SE heads, TA 1611B pistons and TA1633D connecting rods
    Hope this helps a little.
  17. B-rock

    B-rock Well-Known Member

    Thank you, That was exactly what I was looking for.

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