And I have searched google and the engine section of the manual and can't find anything about how to take the rocker shaft apart. just my luck having an odd engine with a year different from everything else more common out there.
IIRC in your other thread we found out that the lifters without the hole aren't made anymore and the ones with the holes will work fine. As far as pushrod length, you'll need to measure to see if you need different ones.
yes, that was the end result on that thread. Someone said even TA didn't make the lifters with the holes, I did read that, but only after I posted the question here. that conclusion was a few pages further from what I had read before. thanks, did end up getting to it. I'll just use these lifters. Well.. the pushrods, I know the correct way would have been to get one adjustable pushrod and then measure what I needed, however, due to my time and shipping constraints I couldn't go that route. When I spoke with TA on the phone I told them my setup, standard engine and they were supplying the cam, lifter, etc.. and they advised on what pushrods to get, and what should work and be fine, so I got them. basically I'm pretty much stuck with the parts I have. I know it's not ideal, but is what it is, I'm just trying to put it all back together as it should go, if it doesn't fall within tolerances, than it's something I will have to live with.... unfortunately that is the truth. Tomorrow I'm hoping to put the rockers on, but still haven't found how to take it apart and clean the inside. Also, it's a funny setup from everything else I know.... all other motorcycles and engines I have played with either have shims under the cups or adjustable pushrods, but on the Buick there's nothing to adjust it. So I guess it's a case of torquing that rocker shaft down and thats it..? Yes it's a single grove set of timing gears. From the discussion on the other thread, from what I'm doing and the way I drive, it wouldn't make much difference getting the one with the 3 keyways.
I'm so confused with all this, the more I read the more I think my engine is a right mix of parts from different years, and no way of me knowing for sure as no one in the UK really knows about Buicks, or thinks they are all like a Chevy. and the manual doesn't show the rocker assembly... Found a thread on here from 2012, where it mentions this: and someone then says: Does that mean my rocker shafts should have holes as I asked/explained on the previous page? the oil goes to the rocker shaft via a hole on the bolts further apart on the shaft, should the shaft itself have this cut as well, or because the hole here is bigger the oil goes between the bolt and hole on the shaft? Just want to make sure I have the correct rocker shaft...
More update... not sure if people are still following, but I'll keep updating. So, in case someone else is looking for the answer on how the end caps come off, I'll leave it here easy to find in case someone google searches the question: 68-69 Buick 350 rocker shafts ends are press fit, so just hit it with a drift gently all around the side. How do buick 350 rocker shaft caps come off? - Press fit, hit with drift. Now, back to it. So, good thing I opened them up, they were completely clogged up. Amazing how with such bad oil flow throughout this engine I still drove around quite well, guess it's because I don't really rev it much. And found out, not sure I had mentioned it, that the reason for my tear down, which was due to a clatter on the rockers, was all due to the oil pump relief valve being stuck open. Anyway... the rocker shafts were clogged up, so this morning spent about 3h cleaning them both, spotless inside now. and put them on the engine Then was time for the oil pump. first taking that rope seal out of the timing cover was a right pain the arse.... For the oil pump I followed this thread (thanks to the author) - http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/oil-pump-clearances-and-oil-pressure.326597/ I hope I have done it right, please correct me if I'm wrong...again, I'm a newbie and rely a lot on you guys. EDIT - If someone is following this, I have done it wrong, as pointed out by Larry further down. the measurement is taken with a flat above the gears, measure clearance between that flat and the gasket surface. Say for example you can fit a 0.002 feeler gauge there. then you have to add 0.004 worth of shim gaskets, so you end up with a end clearance of 0.002. kind of the same clearance I'm showing on the photo, but of course I didn't think that once I bolt down the pump, it squishs and that clearance will be gone. First I dropped the gears in. then I added shims till I had a cleareance of 0.002 between the oil pump gears and a flat edge across the shims. - Got that right? Then I added the booster plate on top of it and a gasket and then the oil pressure regulator to the pump, put in in the order like shown on the photo Torqued down the bolts and the gears spin freely. Next step is taking it appart and pack with petroleum jelly, which I don't have at the moment and need to go buy some.
I'm still following since my rebuild is right behind yours. Keep up the great work. Keep on documenting the process. I appreciate it and others will too....
You're moving fast JP. Glad to see you opened your. shafts up. I have the tools I used to remove caps didn't have time to take pics. If you remember which rocker was clattering I would check for damage on tip facing valve. My68. is down with no fuel issues so I'm rolling my 69. One thing I do is pressurize oil system without intake on and determine all lifters are holding pressure. The 350 Buick oils top end first so its critical.
Finally I don't know which lifters you are using. The rockers you show demand lifters without holes in cup period. Knowing you are stuck with parts you have. To use newer lifters would result in decrease of pressure at shafts themselves. When you pressure up your oiling system the design of rockers allow for oil to weep over length of rocket and drip at point where it meets the valve tip. Without visual confirmation of this you will hear the clatter while the bottom end starves
thank you. I'm glad I can help someone! hahaha I have received so much help here that is good to know I can offer something back. I'm clued up on my harley chopper building and the engines, so on that front I'm always on the forum offering advise and how to's as I always take loads of photos of anything I do. it's a great feeling passing on the knowledge. Yes I am! took ages to get to this stage, but now I'm focused on it and it has been a breeze and a learning curve. I know somethings are not perfect, but for the way I drive and what I'll be doing with it I think I will be alright. Saying that, my other thread and this thread has filled me with knowledge, with the proper knowledge to do a very good engine with time and money, and I have a friend over here with a 350 Buick Appolo parked up for the last 15 years, so.. who knows, I might use all this knowledge to help him out and get that thing back on the road. In terms of lifters. yes you are quite right, this whole lifter, pushrods oiling, rocker shaft oiling, 1968/69 engines has seriously tested my brain hahaha - but I think I got it in the end. - and again, some info below to maybe help some poor soul lost on the internet. 68/69 oils the rocker shafts through oil passages on the head - that's how the oil gets there. The lifters don't have a hole The pushrods are solid, not hollow. The other years, the lifters have a hole and so do the pushrods - that's how the oil get's up to the rocker shaft, via the lifter, into the pushrod and all the way up.... So.. Lifters with no hole. - Don't exist anymore. Solution 1 - Use lifters with hole (which are for all other years except 68/69), use hollow pushrods, block the oil passages that go to the rocker shaft. (Basically this would be converting) Solution 2 - Use lifters with hole and leave the rest intact as per 68/69 Now, I have gone with solution 2, because of all the reasons we know of. Not confident at the time of that discussion and rush on getting parts. and now we get to your point Mike, oil weep at the lifter/pushrod contact area. Now from the other thread, this will be minimal, seeing as there's a solid ball (solid pushrods) plugging that hole and whatever oil weeps will make its way down back into the engine. yes, it can decrease the oil pressure, but I have the TA oil pressure regulator, which I can then adjust in order to get the correct oil pressure at the gauge. In terms of the damage to the valve tip, there is none, they are pristine. The valve clatter I got happened for about 5 seconds, probably not even that as I was parked outside the workshop to go home when it happened, so I switched if off immediately, checked a few things, started again, got the clatter, switched off....and started tearing it down. and your last advice - yes I'm keeping the intake off the engine. for 2 reasons, the first for what you mention, to pressurize with oil and see it coming up and second because we have to move the engine back to the workshop and without the intake will be slightly lighter. Hope I haven't bored everyone to death with the above... and now for todays update!! The engine is done!! all is in place - getting that rope seal in the timing cover seriously tested my patience, but was determined and it's sitting perfectly in there. There's only one problem preventing me from finishing it - oil pick up! The damn thing is too big and I can't get the sump on. I did buy the larger oil pick up but I wasn't brave enough to go drilling the block - yep.. it might not make any difference being big if the block is not drilled, but that's what I bought. Thought of cleaning up the old one, but can't even find that in the workshop... I think it ended up in the trash - probably the only part as I have not thrown anything away, even still have all the old gaskets! What you guys think? heat it up and bend it a bit?
NO, that is wrong. You measure without the shims. Straight edge across the gear faces. The tops of the gears should be .002-.006 ABOVE the bare gasket surface. You then use that measurement to select a gasket. If your measurement is .004 for instance, a .006 gasket will give you .002 end clearance.
Oh.. ok So I kind of done it right and then done it wrong! Saying that because when I started I measured as you said, flat across the top of the gears, and I could put a 0.002 feeler gauge between the flat and the gasket surface. but then I kept reading and might have got confused and ended adding gaskets in order to get 0.002 like I measured on the photo. So I'll do that again then. So, seeing as the measurement I got across the gears was 0.002, I simply have to add gaskets to a thickness of 0.004 - correct? that's it? and not measure anything once gaskets are on it, as the measurement is taken before the gaskets. I think that's where I got confused. ohh and I have the booster plate, but from what I read on another thread, it doesnt make a difference on the end clearance measurement, it's still 0.002?
Correct. If the gears are .002 above the gasket surface, a .004 gasket will give you the preferred .002 clearance. Some guys try to go even closer than that. You don't want the pump to bind at all, but the tighter the better, because the pump expands with heat. Yes, the booster plate gives you a new wear surface, .002 is the preferred end clearance. The pump cover just goes over the booster plate.
Use original pickup.if its still laying around. When u pressurized engine the lifters with hole will allow excess flooding around top of lifters bleeding pressure and preventing oil from reaching outer extremes of motor ( valve tips) Ask if anyone on the forum has done as you intend and been successful. Rip your buddy's Apollo apart for pieces to upgrade to late model rocker. On a seperate note when I took my 2brl apart it had Eton baseplate gasket allowing leak. No wonder I couldn't adjust idle. Ibought lifters of bay sealed power HT 846 supposed to be 68 lifter. Gotta have something.
Thanks for clarifying Larry. I have updated my post to reflect that. I will need to go back and check my shims in terms of what's in there. I remember my gears were 0.002 above the surface, but the instructions say to not use a shim on it's own and to start with a paper 0.005 and then shim... if I add the paper one, as the instructions say, then I'll be over what I need. I guess, 2 shims to make the 0.004 should be ok...... I'm doubting myself on what I have done. I need to recheck.
I would make it as close as possible without obvious binding. That will make the pump as efficient as possible.
I'll try to find it.... but I'm guessing it ended up in the trash as didn't find it in the place where all the old parts are. I'm guessing it was probably in the way of something I was doing and I thought "I have a new one coming, don't need this one"........
Hello JP, I have been following your thread and now I have a few things that may help you. I have a 1968 350 out of a Lesabre in my 76 skylark and I'm running the stock valve train set up. I'm using the TA #1406 lifters with the TA #1425A solid adj. pushrods and have had no issues with them. I purchased a 5/8 oil pick-up from a chain auto parts store that was to long also, had to go with the TA# 1520D and fits perfectly. I did the oil system mods with the adj reg and booster plate with just the one gasket and no shims to get my clearance correct. I left the adj. reg. as it came and had 70lbs pressure running down the hiway at 70mph, talked to Tim at TA and he said to much pressure. Tim advised me to install the orange spring with no tension on it from the set screw and now I have 50lbs at 3000 rpm and 37 at idle. the as is set up gave me good pressure for the cam break in.
