Rebuilding 2004r vs $2500.00 phone call

I want to build my trans if it's $$$ practical.

it's going behind 500+hp BBB.

If you've gone there I'd like to hear from you.

 

2004r's do not like heavy cars. You could go with a 4l80e and it will still cost your over $2500 but will be much stronger

 

I have one in my car. 4250 lbs. with me in the driver's seat. My engine's putting out around 500 hp. I will say that total cost with trans, converter, trans cooler, and other stuff you need for the conversion ended up costing about $3500 or so. But I do love it.

 

If you are at all considering a 4L80E see the end on the following thread.
http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=153208&highlight=76+fuel+economy</U><?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o></o>
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If there is an opportunity for a 4L80E then I would take it.<o></o>
4L80E = TH400 + Overdrive + Lockup Torque Converter. Heres a breakdown of what I had done.<o></o>
Stock 4L80E (~$1000) <o></o>
Driveshaft Mod (~$80)<o></o>
BOP adapter plate (~$50)
Transmission Support bracket, simple to make. $?, I had material.
TCM (trans control module) $700+ to buy from TCI or build your own with a Micro controller or as a last option use simple toggle switches. This boils down to what you want.<o></o>
Shift linkage may need slight mods. $0<o></o>
Backup light and TCC switch may take some effort on your part also. (dont know about 200R4)<o></o>
SpeedO hookup will also take some effort if you want to drive it electrically, I believe there is a mechanical speedo adapter available from TCI or Raptor Transmissions.<o></o>
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The cost for a 4L80E may be equal or less than a built up 200R4, just depends on what you are comfortable doing and/or paying.<o></o>

 

i was just looking around and see a 4L80E from a 92 Chevy truck
for $300.00, is there some special things to look for on the trans.
i mean are there trans to stay away from.. production #'s or like...
should i try and get the wiring harness and torque convertor?
do i need to run a computer with it?
going in to a street strip car.

 

Check that 92 truck trans real close. Weren't the 92's a 4L60E transmission (virtually the same as the 700r4)?

 

If its a 3500 series truck should be a 4L80E . Mine is anyway .

 

Chad, I looked at the pictures of your car and frame. Did you have to cut or trim away any of the frame for clearance at the back of the 4L80E trans? Seems like it would be a really tight fit back there. I looked at the steel angle
"U" that you made to support it. Do you have any pics from underneath to show how the rear trans mount and the frame fits together under the 4L80E?

Mike, do you know if any of the 4L80E transmissions came with a connection for a standard speedometer cable? Or are they for electrical speedometers only?

I was planning on using a 200-r4 behind the 455 in my 67 Riviera, but it is a very heavy car (4400+) and taking the trans in and out several times to get it right just doesn't seem like much fun to me. Later, Randy

 

I think all the 4L80E trans came with electric speedo . There are several companies that make an adaptor to change over . I am pretty sure TCI has it and if they don't have it they can probably direct you to someone that does .

 

Or you can just put a Autometer electric speedo in place of the stock one. I ran the 2004r for 1 1/2yrs in my car before I got more serious with the motor. Yes, I very muched liked it. No it was not maintenance free. You could build it more maintenance free but it will cost more. Mine never left me stranded but broke a band and a band pin on mine. Easy to fix but the tranny had to come out to do it. The 2004r will eat less HP but will cost more to build to handle the power with reliability.

 

Well, the Autometer electric speedo idea is great if you are running a custom dash, but I plan on using the stock "drum" speedometer in my 67 Riviera, and I don't think it would work out in that application.
I like the 200-4R for the fact it will drop in without an adapter, I can get it with a standard speedometer cable set-up, and I shouldn't have to cut the driveshaft. The main issue is the 455 horsepower/torque capability (450HP/525Tq planned) combined with the weight of the car while using the 200-4R transmission. The 4L80E sounds much stronger, but the speedometer and shifting issues on my particular application could really increase the cost of the conversion. Lots of pro's and cons for both options. Either way it isn't a low-dollar conversion. I am still leaning toward the 200-4R, if I can afford to build it strong enough, simply for the ease of installation. Later, Randy

 

Have you considered the 700R4 trans? It is much beefier than a 200r4. However it will require an adapter, but I think you will find it will require fewer mods to work great. Don't be scared of shortening the driveshaft either. It's costs me $80 and a day to get one shortened, and chances are yours needs to be balanced anyways. My driveshaft had to be shortened a half inch when i swapped from a TH350 to a 200r4. And overdrive is beautiful!:beers2:

 

---> From what I was told, the more desirable 4L80E is one dated on or later than '93. The older 4L80E's have the cooling lines exactly where the TH400 lines are; however, these transmissions did not properly cool the overdrive section under continuous heavy loads. The newer 4L80E's have the cooling line (return line) in the rear. I just realized I didn't put that in my last reply. Cooling line is cheep and so is the transmission mount. I would think as long as you are not driving with heavy loads (like a 2500 truck) you ought to be fine with the older versions. I do not claim to know all the various version of the 4L80E. The one I bought is technically a 4L85E (newer than 93) and of the late 4L80E’s they also increased the number of planetary gears in the OD section from 4 to 5 as I was told. Specifically, My trans is a rebuilt 98 out of a 3/4 ton truck.

---> You will have to run some form of grounding system to shift through gears. I alluded to switches or a TCM. Basically you supply the transmission with 12V and then sequentially ground the solenoids to achieve the desired gear. My home brew TCM, using a micro controller, allows me to shift through any gear at any time, kidda like the paddle shifters in rally cars. Also, I am not using the state motor that regulates the line pressure in the transmission thus my shifts are hard all the time. My tires cherp when I put it in Drive or Reverse.


---> For my rivi I needed to make a 90* elbow to give about a 1" clearance from the body. Yes it is tight all around but no contact is made under heavy load. "Holding the brake, while in drive and revving the engine."-Done it several times without issue.

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<FONT color=black>---> From what I've been told the speedos on all 4L80Es are electrically driven unless an aftermarket mechanical drive was put in.
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<FONT color=black>The pictures are of the trans in place and of the 90 elbow made from brass fittings found at a local auto parts store....yes the shoulder(tube at the end of the fitting) is needed in the late 4L80's.
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Flatire, are you still out there? I apologize if it looks like I hijacked your thread. I hope you are getting the kind of info you were looking for.

70skylark3504v, I have looked at the 700R4/4L60 trans, but in my searches for info on that trans, there were some serious concerns about the strength of some of the internal components. I realize the 200-4R has similar concerns, but it seems like there are more performance parts available for the 200-4R trans thanks to the turbo Regal & Grand National crowd. You can spend a ton of money on either one of them, depending on how much horsepower you want to run through the transmission. If it wasn't for the X-frame on my Riviera, I would just run the original S/P 400 and a Gear Vendors overdrive unit and have all the strength I would ever need. I even considered hanging the O.D. unit where the X-frame opens up at the rear and running a short driveshaft from it back to the rearend. Such a setup could eliminate all those expensive CV joints at the same time, using a simple straight driveshaft from the trans back to the O.D. unit.

Black70buick, I can certainly appreciate all the work you have done on your Riviera (I wish I had just half as much done on mine as you have managed to complete on your car) including the transmission installation. Thanks again for the pictures. I doubt if I will go that way on my Riviera, simply because I want to use the factory console & shifter (w/Shiftworks O.D. detent plate) as well as the original mechanical speedometer.

This has been some great info. Thanks guys, Randy

 

You are right about the 4L80E trans being different in the newer version . I know some of the solenoids are different and the internal wire harness and through case plug had to be upgraded around 93 . I don't know about cooling but will check on that before I build my 91 . If the cooling is different I will find a later core to build . I'm sure 52' trailer will cause heat problems under the best of conditions

 

You know, if flatire was looking for someone to help him go through a rebuild on a 200-4R trans, we (I) have really screwed up his thread with alot of info he didn't need. Any of you transmission guys out there that can help him with the details and instructions he might require to get his trans working again?

 

Flattire...I second Ramkats remarks, I apologize for the highjacking.

 

The turbo V6 websites seem to have more info on the 200-4R trans than we do here. Flatire, you might look here as a starting point:
www.gnttype.org/techarea/transmission/200rebld.html

 

I'm puzzled about that statement. The 200-4r was the standard overdrive transmission on the '81-'90 Buick Estate Wagon and the Cadillac Fleetwood/Brougham. I wouldn't call them "lite" by any means.

One of the most noted comments I see about the 200-4r is heat. So, you get a trans cooler.

I would imagine the Estate Wagon and Brougham models have some if not all of the beefed up parts included in the GN/SS builds, so they could/should hold up? Does anybody know what the torque ratings were on that Olds 307 that they put in the Caddy?

My $.02