Ring and pinion setup advice

Discussion in 'Got gears?' started by gs430, Oct 5, 2019.

  1. gs430

    gs430 Well-Known Member

    I took my 8.5" rear to a well known Ring and Pinion specialist in Everett, WA, to have a Yukon Duragrip, 3.42 Yukon gears, axle bearing/seals installed and setup, all parts purchased at the shop. 3 weeks later than promised, it's done and I pick pick it up. Once home, I spun one axle and the other side spun opposite ?? Remove the cover and the original open diff was re-installed - after I had paid for the duragrip, with the shop markup. Then inspected the invoice and no axle bearings were installed. So back to the shop with the rear end (35+ miles in traffic). Talk to the manager, who admitted it was not the duragrip, and that axle bearings were not replaced. Talking to the tech, I explicitly tell him what bearings and seals are required - he took a picture of the correct Timken part numbers that i had written down. 2 weeks later, go to pick it back up for the second time. On inspection, noticed end play in the axles, dial indicator shows 0.072" end play both sides. They installed Chevy type seals on the BOP rear... So i order the correct bearings and seals and have a local transmission shop press on the new bearings (they did a great job and I will be a return customer). Here's the issue now: Between 40 - 60 MPH the gears are whining. I pull it apart, 0.013" backlash and pattern(s) as attached pics show. Tightening the backlash would push the drive side further off the toe, correct? Is this a pinion too deep pattern? I have all winter to do it myself since i don't trust the shop I paid to set it up...
     
  2. gs430

    gs430 Well-Known Member

    Pics
     

    Attached Files:

  3. gs430

    gs430 Well-Known Member

    One last thing - 350 easy miles on the gears.
     
  4. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    Not even close to correct. My guess is they didn’t even make an attempt to check the pattern. They probably took the original pinion shim,and stuck it on the new pinion. Regardless,they did not put compound on it to run a pattern.
     
  5. monzaz

    monzaz Jim

    I do not see how they could install chevy type seals on a Bolt in axle rear...Just not possible... send pictures of the installed axleshaft parts...would like to see that.
    As far as the set up like Brian said...WAY off. Probably just took original shim and used it or NO shim at all :(

    So take the rear apart... Tell us what the side shims / carrier shims are and what the pinion shim is. and will go from there for now.
    .035 - .038 are usually good starting points.
    I have carrier and pinion shims if you need WHICH I think you will. :)
    Jim JD
     
  6. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    Wow that's the work of ring and pinion specialist???????? Brian and Jim can get you going in the right direction

    But that looks like it needs more shim in the pinion........when I did my last 8.5 took .042 if I remember to get it correct.


    But they will need to know what in there now b4 they can direct you a which way to go.


    I would take those pictures and go ask for a refund of labor money then tell ever person you know in the area about the crappy work and lack of service
     
  7. gs430

    gs430 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Brian, Jim, and Ben. Jim, I just assumed they were Chevy type seals not having worked on one before, the old seals are long gone and no pictures. I do have pics of the end play before deciding not to take them back to the original shop.

    Called the shop yesterday, they have a new manager that understood the situation. I must not be the only customer that his happened to. Without showing him pics, he is sending a pinion install kit just from the phone call. I have carrier shims so I should be set, but it is going to be a while until I get back to it. I will probably post when i do get it apart.
     
  8. monzaz

    monzaz Jim

    Sure they got out of that one easy...lol. pinion shims $2.50 ...lol.

    But at least they are trying...
     
  9. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    I was thinking the same thing.......what did they charge you for labor? 300-400

    Most of the time, unless a special puller is used, to replace the pinion shim requires a new rear bearing...........plus you should get a second one to make a checking bearing because I really doubt you will get it right on your first try with the new shim.......if not you will eat several bearings
     
  10. gs430

    gs430 Well-Known Member

    My understanding is he is sending the complete Yukon pinion kit with bearings, sleeve, nut, and shims. I told him I needed to sacrifice the old bearings. We'll see.
     
  11. monzaz

    monzaz Jim

    Oh, that would be better. :D Jim
     
  12. telriv

    telriv Well-Known Member

    Has anyone thought about installing the nec. shims behind the rear pinion bearing race??? Does the same as the pinion spacers, BUT you don't need to press off the bearing & potentially destroying it.
    I have done MANY 8 3/4 Mopars this way.

    Tom T.
     
  13. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    I have done some of mine that way personally. I start with a shim that is purposely thin..... 030-.032. Then add shims needed. Only issue I've run into is to buy 2 shim pack....if using g the very the . .004ish, if you need to add under the race that shim will get destroyed.

    But by the time you buy a couple shim packs you can make a checking bearing.

    I believe the rear bearing of an 8.5, 12 bolt, and 8.8 are all the same part number
     
  14. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    M802048
     
  15. monzaz

    monzaz Jim

    So your using a slide splitter? Huh... Yah that will happen we have a bit better tools to get that bearing in and off. Never ruin the shims.
    Hone that bearing out and get a set up bearing going for yourself.
     
  16. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    Wrong shim, telriv asked about putting a shim behind the race for the rear bearing in the housing. You can't and dont use a bearing splitter to remove the race.......as I'm sure you know.

    But if you have .004 shim behind there, anddrive that race out that shim get all beat up
     
  17. monzaz

    monzaz Jim

    Danas are shimmed like that. That are a pain in my butt. he carrier shims are behind the carrier bearings too. Just old way of doing shimming. There are many ways to shim a diff for depth and backlash. Have fun. Jim
     
  18. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    I used to use the shims under the race often, till I got me a checking bearing made. There still has been a time or two......for some reason......when I set it up with the checking bearing and all looks very well, go to put the new bearing on for finial assembly and when done the pattern changed a touch.......so to not have to ruin a new bearing I use them that way. My own personal rear I just up with 4.30 this happened to me.

    Not sure why this happens.......I assume difference in bearings
     
  19. gs430

    gs430 Well-Known Member

    PK GM8.5, complete pinion kit arrived in 3 days. Not sure if this is normal, but the shims included vary from .010 to .019", so will have to figure out combinations that work. Extra M802048 to make a setup bearing is on its way. Decided not to set it up laying on my back, so I will work on dropping the rear this week.
     
  20. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    I tell people “ I work over it,not under it”.
    There should be an assortment of shims to make a stack ranging from .032”-.042”. I clean them all off,mic each one,and label it. Same with carrier shims.
     

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