Dad, bro and myself are all 3 Buick lovers and have several cars between us. So, I get to drive several models on a regular basis. I remember not feeling any difference in power between the 66 with a 425 versus a 68 with a 430. I then remember those 2 feeling a little stronger than dad's 401 powered 64 Riv. Those comparsions were made in the 90's. Ok, in 2002 I got the 70 driver Riv running good and on the road. Of course it had its original 455 which was Buick's best hp year. Yes, the car may have had a little more power than the other 3 Rivs, but not by much. So, last year I installed a posi rear with 3 series carrier in it. I could tell just a tiny difference in performance. So, last year dad bought a cream puff 72 Boattail. I have always been a specs kind of guy and always assumed that in 71 most GM's lost their power edge. But, after driving it and especially at high speeds I decided it was the fastest of all the Rivs we own. Once rolling, that thing moved! Could have been a fluke? Ok, fast forward to this week. I got my 71 all original Riv running. I installed a replacement Stage 1 cam and had 2.5 inch exhaust installed on Fri. Other than the cam, exh. and HEI the car is all stock. I worked the brakes and finally got to drive it today. It will fly on top end for a stock 455! Now, it is the fastest of the bunch. So, I think the numbers lied to me this time. I don't know why or how, but our newer, heavier and lower compression Rivs are the fastest of the bunch. All the others were tuned well and in good running condition, so that was not the excuse. Even with a better gear, the 70 can't hang with the boattails. What's up?? I don't know. o No:
Maybe your memory is a little foggy........how can a heavier car with a similar motor be that much faster? Those Boatails weigh like 5400 pounds, don't they? That's about 600-1000 lbs heavier than any '68 as far as I know, depending how the cars were optioned. Unless I'm wrong, I always thought the boatails were much heavier than the second generation Rivs. o No:
Actually the boattail weighs in at about 4400 lbs. You over estimated by like 1000 lbs. I always thought they were slightly slower than the smaller older ones, I do know that after 72 performance dropped WAAYY off. You could be thinking of the 74's they came in at 5000 lbs. The 71 G.S was timed at 15.9 in a quarter mile. How does that compare to earlier years.
71 is supposed to come stock with 315 (330 for GS) HP and 455 ft-lb it is supposed to be 0-60 in 8.1sec and in 72 it dropped to 250hp ou: the 66 was 340hp and 67 was 360 and the qurter mile time of the pre 1970's were better than anything onward as far as I know, the 1970 gs stage 1 was 0-60 in 6.5sec and quarter mile in 13.8 off the showroom floor
Mine weighs 4,400 according to my registration. I looked at the sticker on the driver's door on a '71 or '72 at a car show last summer.......I thought it said like 5,400 lbs. Maybe that was laden weight and the earlier cars were rated by unladen weight? Those cars are bigger, I would think they must weigh more. :bglasses:
Even my loaded 1975 Electra weights less than 5000 pounds. In fact, at about 4800 lbs, it's the heaviest postwar Buick sedan and the only heavier Buick from this period is the clamshell Estate Wagon. Depending of the cam, axle ratio, exhaust, ignition and carb settings, cars could be a lot faster or slower even if they are well tuned. My 65 Wildcat with a 401, a VP ST-400 transmission and a single exhaust is relatively slow with the recommended ignition advance but when you give a little more advance, it becomes much faster (but also makes some detonation). With stock advance, you can still say that it's well tuned but it is not as powerful. Of course, since the 40 years old engine has never been rebuilt and has about 80,000 miles on it so the timing chain might be stretched. Probably because of it's 3.07 axle ratio the 65 Wildcat feels stronger at highway speeds and it reaches 120 mph rather quickly when compared with my 67 Riviera GS or my former 68 Wildcat with 430 engines, dual exhausts and 3.42 axles.
In 1972, the 455's HP was almost the same as in 1971 but it was now Net HP instead of Gross HP. See this link
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/buick-riviera/buick-riviera-history.shtml if you go there it says from 71 to 72 the 72 also took another power hit even after the 71 it's top speed went from 120 to 112
My father used to have a '72 Estate Wagon with the "clamshell" rear window and tailgate. I know for a fact that monster weighed over 5,000 lbs......I forget exactly what the door sticker said on it, but I thought it said something like 5,500 lbs. That thing was a tank! It had a 455 and a posi rear although I don't know what the gear ratio was. My bet is that they were highway gears b/c that thing was a dog off the line compared to what my old '66 Riv could do. It wouldn't even spin the tires. But on the other side of the coin, even on ice, that station wagon got unbelievable traction. I remember one snowy night on a road that had no curbs and a ditch on both sides. (I was only 18 at the time) The road was just plowed, and I couldn't see the slope of the road going down as it was covered with snow. Well, I had to turn around because I was going the wrong way. As my luck would have it, I ended up putting both right wheels into the ditch and became stuck. :ball: I had the steering wheel turned to the full left and the car kept going straight and I couldn't get it out. Here's what I did.......This thing had such awesome traction, I threw it into reverse, turned the wheel fully to the right, went deeper into slope of the road, and then with my foot on the gas threw it into drive and actually pulled out! :laugh: I know with the Riv that would never have happened, even with the posi I would have needed to be pulled out by a tow truck. In what year did they start putting stickers on the driver's door with the tire pressures and weight of the car on them? o No: I think maybe that might be the weight that includes a full tank of gas, all the fluids, and maybe even some passengers? There's no door sticker on my '67 Riv, and the weight on the registration is called "unladen weight" which I think might mean the weight of the car at the factory without fluids or passengers. The tire pressure sticker is in the glovebox and does not say anything about weight.
Yeow Phil-120 mph in a 40 year old cat? I remember back in the day they were a handful on the highway even around 100. You must have a very tight front end on that car. I agree with the comment about tune and especially the timing set-those OE cam gears with the nylon on the teeth were always a problem-maybe a bit quieter, but not good for precise long term cam timing and longevity. I think a change to a new, modern timing set would be a performance wake up that anybody could feel with their car-
according to http://www.rivowners.org/features/dimensions.html the 67 weighed in at 4420, the 71 at 4435 and the 72 at 4502 the 73 ballooned to over 5000 lbs and stayed over 5000 lbs for the next 3 years. The 71's were only about 7 inches longer and and inch wider than the 67's, so they weren't really a lot bigger.
Here's the skinny on the Rivs. The 66 has new dual 4's with an alum. intake., hot plugs, 342 rearend and elect. ignition. The 68 has been well maintained with all new igintion components along with a newly rebuilt good performing Q-Jet. The 64 401 has new dual 4's with factory intake and also with elect. ignition. The 70 has rebuilt Q-Jet with hei and advance kit along with a shift kit in the tranny and 3 series rearend. The 72 is all stock with old carb. and new points. My 71 has a Stage 1 cam (only good for 7 hp according to old posts here), HEI with advance kit and 2.5 better flowing exhaust, and dirty old Q-Jet. Thanks to the V8 board, timing has been set on all cars to it's peak performance. All cars but the 71 have stock type exhaust. As far as weight goes, here is what I have listed in old Buick lit.: 1964: 3950 1966: 4180 1968: 4222 1970: 4216 1971: 4325 1972: 4368 1973: 4486 1974: 4572 And just because one car "looks" larger doesn't mean it always is. I have learned that over the years with dad's collector cars. I have pulled a 66 Riv. car cover off and tried to put it on a 66 Impala. It's like putting a Trojan on! The Impala is larger in size, but lighter in weight. Same goes with his 58 Buick. That thing is huge looking and the covers don't even come close to fitting over it, but not on the scales. Also, several times these cars have been pitted against eachother on the hwy. You know how it goes when family members are all in line on the interstate with big blocks at their fingertips. Just this spring, my brother pulled away from me in his 66 while I was driving the 68. He also was all over my bumper while driving the 72 when I was driving the 68 a few weeks back. The 430 couldn't get away. The little 401 in the 64 has been laughed at when dad tries to romp on it with the others following him. None of them wants to tangle with this 71. Buick guys have told me in the past that one engine would run better than another even if it was the same year. One old guy always traded in 66 Rivs. He would never sell a blue one he had because it was stronger than all the rest. It was bone stock but ran better. The original engine in dad's 66 ran a little stronger than the replacements we have installed over the years. Not trying to dispute anyone's word, just stating what my experiences have been over the last 15 years. By the way, they all run good!
That's very interesting........I'm still wondering though about that door sticker I read.......I'm certain it was a Boatail and I'm certain it read about 5,400 lbs. I know those can haul a$$ b/c there's a guy around here with a built red one that sounds very nasty and rumor has it that it runs in the high 12's. :Brow:
I didn't cruise at this speed for more than a minute or so... I remember going over 100 in rural roads with my 68 Wildcat was a bit scary with a really bad front end, bad shocks and the old Goodyear Power Cushion tires from the early seventies but with radial tires (even cheap ones), a tight front end and a good alignment, it's not that bad (even if the shocks and springs aren't too good on the 65 either). I have been driving 60's and 70's full size Buicks as daily drivers since I've got my driver's license so I'm quite used to this and I don't like driving anything else anyway... Last year, I installed 235-70-15 Eagle GA tires on my 67 Riv and they are a great improvement over the old Yokohama radials that were on it. The Riv has new springs but it still has it's 4 original spiral shocks...
I know I raced a 71 or 72 boat tail riv. when I first got my 70 Riv. running from about a 30 MPH roll, and I pulled at least 5 car lengths on it, and thats with the 2.73 gear in the car. My car is just a rebuilt 455 with a small cam and ported heads with the rest stock.
I think that sticker states the Gross vehicle weight with full tank of gas, passengers, luggage, etc.
Don't underestimate what a cam and ported heads can do! :Brow: I know what it did to my 455 GS. :3gears:
Does your dad's '64 have a posi in it? If he does, he would find that a swap for a lower gear(like a 2.56) would really help him on top end. :TU:
No posi. They all have the tall gears except the 66 GS and the 70 with a 66 posi rear in it. Nothing like a tall gear on the hwy. Just for curosity's sake, what did a stock 71 non GS Riv. run the quarter in when new? I am going to put the old G-Tech on it and see what it does. I am sure it will be a dog on take off with the gear, but I think it will come on strong. I ran the 70 a few weeks back with the G-Tech and it did a 15.7 in the quarter. I think that was dead on what they did when new. I may do them all and see if my Butt-Tech is working properly. :laugh:
1971 GS did it in 15.9 (Road & Track), regular Riv 16.9 (Motor Trend) 1972 regular Riv: 16.8@85 mph, top speed was 123 mph (Road & Track) 1973 Stage I GS: 15.56@88 mph, top speed was 120 mph (3.23 gears) I have a .060 73 with ported heads, GS cam and bigger valves, the needle on the speedometer is moving out of sight, and I can cruise at 120 mph all day long with the 2.93 gears :bglasses:
