3.8 setup? GStage1 I'm not sure, I will look at the next 3.8 and see. The reason I used the 4.3l chevy is the modular design with 2 units holding all the pumps and mechanical parts. This is crucial to eliminate additional brackets and adapters. Every adapter is an engineering nightmare when it come to spacing and alignment on this belt system. When I first started this project, simplicity was my goal, and it should be your as well. I will let you know on your question. Weekender o No:
I tried, but couldn't find a pic of the front of a serpentine fwd 3.8 liter engine. Anybody else have or find one? It should at least be a bolt-on for a 350...
Weekender. I am about to head to Victorville to he pick-n-pull here in a few minutes. I will do some looking for that water pump pulley. I know I have seen one before, just cant place it. Try German cars (BMW, Opels, Mercades) I spent 3 years there, and seem to remember that they use serpentine without the reverse drive pulley. Sounds odd, but just, mabey?
Success Overall a successful day. I picked up a rear disk brake setup from an 84 Caddy eldo. I am going to try mocking it up on my car tonight. It looks like it should work. I also found the water pump pully in question. I knew I had seen it before. Found this one on an 85 Ford P.O.S. (I mean LTD). I also found one on an 89 Lincoln. Seems to be about 85 and up Ford 302's all have the pulley we are looking for. Here is a pic, the larger one is the Crank pulley (which can be re-drilled for our balancers.
Pulley questions Good hunting! :grin: Can you take shot from the side so I can see the back spacing? Are these 5 groove pulleys? I can't tell from the pics? I found that the water pump pulley from the Grand National would work if back spacing is correct. The GN drive pulley almost made it but it was 5/8" to long on the back spacing. We can shim pulleys out, we can't cut it off if its back spacing is to deep. Weekender
Sorry, I thought the pic was a lot clearer than that. Looks like the pulley is for a 5 groove belt, and that is 2 inches on the old tape measure. Looks to be about 1 and 5/8ths from top to bottom. Hope this'll work for ya.
Skyman, Don't waste your time with the Eldo/Riv/Toro rear brake rotors. You have to turn your axle flanges down for them to work. Also, your Ebrake cables won't work either. I have a post with Rear Disc Brakes on Whoa and Sway. I got a kit from www.tsmmfg.com which uses the Eldo/Riv/Toro calipers but includes the correct brackets, ebrake cable and rotors. I will have an article on our site below covering this swap. I am going to start on this project in the next few days. Was at the yard today and "have been told" 95-01 F-bodies with rear disc brakes are a bolt on. Local yard has a 96 with rear disc brakes and I am going to verify this "rumor"
Pulley talk Skyman If this is the drive pulley it looks exactly like the one I have on my engine, except mine has a very small center hole and a 3 bolt pattern. I'm in the process of making the drawing for the drive pulley spacer. Do you have a set of calipers to measure the inside diameter of the pulley? Also, what is the radius measurement of the pulley, It looks to be 6" plus. If so, this is a much smaller diameter than the 4.3 chevy and helps from the HP standpoint. If you don't have calipers for an exact measurement I will pick up a pulley and get what I need. We don't have very many 302 Fords in Flint, Michigan (Buicktown) area recycle centers, but I will see what I can find. Now, the water pump pulley can you give me the measurement from front to back like you did with the drive pulley. The radius (O.D.) across the face of the pulley would be good to know as well. These pulleys are very near one another this is why these measurements are important. This might come together faster than I thought thanks to your help. :TU: Weekender :3gears:
GN serpentine belt system My son has a GN and I looked his stuff over since it was in a box and has been for a couple of years. You know the senario "To much boast and things go bang". The water pump pulley is a sure thing for my setup but drive pulley was to deep on the back spacing. If you had the whole setup, your may be right but it would be hanging way off the frontend of the 455 and may create clearence problem up front. Another problem, how many GN do you find in the boneyard. These Buick guys gobble these thing up like crazy then hoard the parts. Weekender
Pulley are on board Skyman I have the same pulleys you found at Vickerville. The water pump is the only one I have a question on at this point. Before I put the car up for the winter I will see if the backspacing will work on my current setup. About 15 minutes worth of work will tell the story. The drive pulley will work as well but I have to revamp the spacer to the 302 backspacing then get the drawings done. Weekender :TU:
Sorry Weekender, I've been in the field for a few days. The measurements were on the water pump pulley, but I see you already have a set. Good to see some ingeniuity going into our old iron to make it modern. I don't have the crank in my motor yet, or I would gladly mock this stuff up. (Afraid it wouldn't be to accurate.) Let me know what you find.
More pulley data Skyman After looking at these pulleys for a couple of days heres the problems and the solutions. Problem 1. The 302 f*** W/P pulleys will not work. BAck spacing is NOT deep enough. Problem 2. The F*** drive pulley could work except the the 4 bolt layout conflicts with the 6 bolt layout on the Buick harmonic balancer. This condition would be difficult to rectify. Solutions1. We will use the F*** drive pulley as a water pump pulley. The backspacing is very near perfect when installed backwards on the w/p. Second benefit is, the Larger O.D. is what you are looking when it comes to HP. I am designing a very simple adapter flange that will make this a bolt on for the SHORT shaft Buick W/P. Should have it off the CAD system in a week or two I will build and test a prototype by January. The 2 H's come first Hunting and Holidays. Solution 2. I found that a F*** drive pulley from a Taurus 3.0l will be better for the drive unit. I believe it is a bit smaller on the O.D. and the center hole and 3 bolt configuration make it almost perfect. Once I pick one up I will design the adapter and get it to my CAD guy for a blue print. Time to get a Prototype built is the same as the W/P adapter. This seems to moving along quite well don't you think? Weekender :Smarty:
I hope all that take advantage of this hard work of yours will see fit to compensate you fairly for it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- :TU: Mac
Weekender, I never would have thought to use the crank pulley as a water pump pulley. That's what I call "thinking outside the box." Sounds great, let me know. I should have my motor together by Christmas or so, so I will be working it from my end too. Keep us posted
Pulley talk For all following this thread, Howdy! I went to the local recycler Saturday looking for another drive pulley. Low and behold there was a pickup with a Northstar motor in the backend looking back at me. The drive pulley was the best yet for this project, the reason being it fit my current adapter better than the one I'm using. The 3 bolt pattern lined up perfectly with the Buick 6 bolt harmonc balancer. Drill three more holes and your There. It has even a smaller O.D. than my current pulley which increases underdrive by another 10%. how much better can it get than that? :laugh: I blew second gear out of my T400 Tranny last Saturday and thought s long as it was in the garage I would take a series of detailed photos pointing out the special bracketry needed in this prodject. I will post a them on Monday. Then maybe you folks can give me feed back as to whether to build and adapter package, just provide the drawings and parts lists.o No: Some guy are handy and some are not. In addition to the brackets there is some heliarc welding required as well as drilling and tapping. It is not simple, but it is worth it from a performance and appearance standpoint. If your driving a Buick obviously you are not following the crowd, which means some of you are up to the task. :Comp: Weekender
I think I know where there is an Olds with the little Northstar engine and I will check thatpully out. Anything else off that system to look at? Was just through Clio last Sunday :3gears: Let me know when you are ready to look at the GS engine bay.
Pic's and more Hi to All, This is the photo list and discription of the different parts needed to mate the Chevy 4.3 engine frontend to our 455 bb. 1. p/s and Alternator brackets there is a plate and a round rod that stabilizes the outer end of the p/s pump. 2. Bracket for idler pulley. heliarc or tig well is required. 3. p/s Alt. lower support. 4. Drive pulley adapter 5. Head to A/c adapter plate 6. Upper reinforcement rod forn a/c 7. drive pulley assembled 8. Belt installed 9. Fan assembled (This assembly will be removed on my new setup) The w/p will drive off the main belt eliminating the need for it. 10. Upper water hose support bracket See pic and more 2 for additional photos. :rant: Now that you know the secret of this system which would be better for you if you wanted to assemble one on your ride: 1. A set of just the drawings and a parts list so you can have the pleasure of doing it all yourself. o No: 2. A complete bracket and spacer kit along with installation guide and a parts list to take to your local recycler. Weekender :Smarty:
