Ships and such of history garner such little appeal (per capita) unfortunately that so much is going to the land fill or to "Make razor blades" that in another 100 years, history teachers will scratch their heads and say things like "I seem to recall a ship that once... " then change the channel mentally to the latest greatest app tab lap ab thingy that some china kid back in the 70's. We are such a throw away society. Being an east coaster how about his one? Just plane lousy logistics under pressure now to build condominimums up he creek in Hackensack H.J. of all places. Almost landlocked and ultimately due to be scrapped. . . The trivia question here is this; "How much pre-atomic age steel (!) is needed to produce a new lap ab tap top thingy? A. One Pound. B. One ounce. C. NOTHING. And the answer is :x____________. I read this stuff all the time and was even kinda instrumental sinking old tug boats offshore as artificial reefs DBA Blue Sea Solutions Inc. That adventure netted me a $20,000 loss after permits, insurance, workmans comp. etc. etc. etc. All the ILLEGITIMATE bastards that did it laughed at me. I would be the one that got the million dollar environmental fine when caught. The American dream down the crapper, that incidentally, flows counter clockwise north of the equator. The USS ORISKANY was sunk off of Pensacola and that adventure after cleaning and prepping was north of 30 mill. https://www.google.com/search?site=....1..64.psy-ab..1.2.395.6..35i39k1.p17IZku763A As a retired educator, I'm sure most of this makes sense to you. Guys like us were of an age when "things" mattered. Nowadays, the $600 crack phone drops in the head and its "Oh well", buy another. That only rates a GGGGRRRRRRRRRR with me. Please read the attached link and offer suggestions, as I am sure a nationwide effort to save some history may be the next cottage industry. I may well be one of the few that really cares. In this photo, I can guarantee that my dad was on board as a GM Diesel delivery engineer during the war. This was a Manitowoc Shipbuilding submarine of about a 1943 model Gato class. Pic was from the family album. When its too wet to cut the grass, kick back in the AC and put yer feet up and do some reading. "IRE" is a terrible thing to waste, EH??? Bill in downtrodden Two Rivers. Sorry for the rant but I really am pretty passionate about this stuff... https://www.google.com/search?site=...j46i67k1j0i20k1j0i20i46k1j46i20k1.slLHJb3nwcI
Bill, the reason that I feel so strongly about saving the UNITED STATES is because another of my interests is railroading. In the late 1940s, the New York Central railroad bought 22 Alco steam locomotives. The wheel arrangement was 4-8-4 which makes it a "Northern" type. Alco used everything that it had learned from building the fabulous New York Central Hudsons (4-6-4) and "super" Hudsons, plus what it knew from building the last series of Union Pacific Northerns (one of which is perhaps the most famous steam locomotives still existent to railfans) and built the mighty Niagaras for the Central. These were numbered in the 6000 series because they were supposed to make 6000 horsepower. One dynoed at a bit over 6,700 hp. One of these locomotives ran 271,000 miles in 11 months, which would be good for a modern diesel. They would slow to 80 mph to scoop water from track pans. They could go from New York City to Chicago with one coal stop. They were the only steam locomotive ever built that operated for less than the Diesel horsepower that it took to replace it. It was the pinnacle of steam. None were saved. I hope we don't make that mistake again.
We have a similar situation here with LMC. That's Lake Michigan Carferry ltd. which runs the SS BADGER from Manitowoc to Ludington. The ship was one of several built in Sturgeon Bay, Wi. at Bay Ship in 1953. Its sisters are gone and thus we still have one, and its the last coal fired ship on the lake. Through congressional input, it was saved with one caveat; the overboard ash system needed to have scrubbers installed PLUS onboard storage for the ash and klinkers for disposal onshore, at a land fill of course. The tree huggers bone of contention was the mercury that was being dumped with the ash into the lake. Being a realist, I can say sure, but the total for an average seasons of usage (about 150 days with 2 - 75 mile crossings per day) amounted to about 10 grams of mercury. 100 years ago almost ALL steamers on the lakes were coal fired and discharged overboard, so wheres the logic? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Badger I think your 6700 HP 484 rating is a bit optimistic. Being in the steam generation business for 30+ years, generally the turbines are rated in one of two case scenarios. Megawatts and Pounds of Steam per hour Produced. Horsepower can be calculated directly from megawatt production. http://www.kylesconverter.com/power/megawatts-to-horsepower Our two units were 265 and 365 MgW respectively. Motive power is calculated as Draw Bar HP and is a bit more involved mathematically. Weight, tractive effort, speed, heating/evaporative surface of the boiler, fuel type, steam temperature and the biggy, heat rate. In school, we were taught that reciprocating steam engines have about a 12-15% heat rate (efficiency). with condensed steam upping that to about 20-25%. Diesel engines (diesel electric included) stand alone at about 40%. That's still 60% going up the stack as loss and heat for dynamic (engine/electric) braking. http://ctr.trains.com/railroad-refe...lculated-drawbar-horsepower-curves-for-4-8-4s I am always game to learn something new, so please feel free to expound on this. I too am a motive enthusiast from Rubber bands to Nuclear power! ws
I can't find my Niagara book by Stauffer right now, but that's where I got the figure, Bill. Poking around the internet, I found that one Niagara was tested and had a Drawbar horsepower of 5,374. I also discovered that the Niagara's boiler was so efficient that it would evaporate more water per hour than the Union Pacific Big Boy (of which seven were saved; one of which the Union Pacific is currently restoring to operational status). My point was that the Niagara was more cost-effective than the Diesels that replaced it, and those calculations were based on 5,000 horsepower. As you pointed out, there are some mathematics involved. If one considers the cost of maintaining facilities on a huge railroad to service only 27 (I previously said 22) locomotives of a type that had totally different fuel and service requirements than every other (Diesel) locomotive that the railroad operated, this cost advantage would go down the drain really fast. Just for fun though - The last run of a Niagara in 1956 was to replace a broken-down Diesel!
Ive been following the UP's restoration exploits for quite a while now. Another boundless love. What a job just to move it to an active siding! We have a static display here in Green bay at the National Rail Road museum. Even after years of neglect and vandalism (whoda thunk in a museum??) its still pretty damn impressive to sit in the cab on top of a million pounds (tender included)of American Iron... ws
Getting wayyy off topic here, but it's interesting how locomotives get their type names. The Hudson was developed by Alco and the New York Central, and was named for the river. The Northern was developed for the Northern Pacific; the Berkshire was initially made for the Boston & Albany that ran through the Berkshires, etc. When the massive 4-8-8-4 was manufactured by Alco, an unknown factory employee chalked the words "Big Boy" on the boiler of the first one built. Nobody could improve on that, and Big Boy it is to this date. A higher percentage of these monsters were saved than any other American steam locomotive.
That's OK John... it sure beats the MTFCA HA! After 100 years of debate about band lint on the MAG post how much deeper can we dig? BTW, That's an old wives tale, and Ive been Model T'ing for 60 years... ws
I've only been at it for about five. Amazing how much fun 20 HP can be! The only reason that I ever remove the key is that I'm afraid some jerk will steal the key. Today hardly anyone knows how to drive one.
WOW!!! I thought you were a lifer like me! At about 5 years old my dad was showing me what fitting rod bearings was about, fetching tools and such. We had several and as an adult Ive probably had 5 personally. That's why I was so yerked at guys like that jerry vanderwerstenrngrubber guy. Anybody that has to put on the blue rubber gloves to check oil on a T , well, lets just say, his swing set swings in the other direction! Then that other kid that got P-offed and was gonna hack the site... ws
I always wanted an A (I had one that was Nailhead powered) but never thought much about the T until I discovered that a friend had one (24 Touring car). He taught me to drive it in a local high school parking lot. Purely by coincidence a newspaper photographer was driving by and stopped to take a few shots. The brief article and the photo of me driving the T made the newspaper. The T isn't as practical as an A (as you know), but it's a lot more fun, I'm working on a steering column for my '27 touring car at present.
Always had 26-27s as we all know are the improved models...I met a guy in town here that just bought 2 Ts; a 27 tudor sedan and a 27 Roadster. The sedan is for sale and I believe both came from a museum. Maybe the one in St Louis. He keeps begging me to take the roadster for a weekend (his sister is in assisted living outa state), but I haven't found the time yet. Nice little rod tho... ws
Love that roadster Bill, but I'd like it better with wood-spoke wheels (yes, I know that the wires are better and stronger, but I just like wood wheels on a T). I have heard that the natural wood varnished spokes were an option on the improved cars, black was standard. Purists do not like anything but black, but I like the natural wood, and that's the way mine are. BTW: There is (as you probably know) a bit of a division in the model T community - some diehards don't consider the 26-27 T's to be "real" Ts. All I know is that my '27 doesn't have to back up steep hills.
Strange you should say that John... the owner wants to swap wheels, but being a newbie didn't realize the WHOLE hub needs to go with the style of wheel. Its probably gonna be up to me to do the job, sans a hub puller for either type of rear hub. After the wheel swap he wants to sell the sedan. I told him everyone loves an open Model T, until its 40 and raining. A tudor sedan would be swell for me in the wintertime. I too like the clear wood wheels. That's just shows a little finesse mixed in with a drop of love! At first I read "diehards" as Di**heads (plus I hate judges!) and was ready to give you a virtual slap on the back LOL... ws
